Freethought & Rationalism Archive

Biff the unclean · 03-21-2003, 05:08 PM

Be careful. While chimps like Kanzi can learn a lot of signs, they have little talent for stringing them together to make coherent sentences.
That isn't actually the case. I work with gorillas, not all that far from Livermore, out on the peninsula. The grammar they use might not be proper English grammar but I would say it's every bit as good as that used by our local high school students.
But the apes "talk" a great deal and have done so for years so they are very good at it. They have IQ's in the mid 80's which is low normal for a human but by no means retarded. Sentence structure tends to be simple. "Hurry hungry hurry sandwich do there" was an emphatic comment about the slow service at lunch time today.
What must be kept in mind is that they aren't humans but they aren't parrots either. They know what they are saying, they know what you are saying. They are quite coherent.

And nobody has succeeded in communicating in complete sentences with some cetacean, as far as I know.
There was a break through in Cetacean communication about four years back.
Dolphins don't speak in sentences, they speak in sonar images. They can project "sonograms" (for lack of a better word) to whomever they are speaking to. So the listener rather than have an abstract message (as we do with abstract sounds having agreeded upon meanings) gets a concrete message. You know how we might say ' you described that so beautifully that I can almost see it'? Well with Dolphins there is no almost about it. They can 'see' what is being said.

Marduk · 03-22-2003, 07:04 AM

�I can just hear the wackier fundies saying that the aliens are actually demons from satan, sent to trick us into their unrighteous ways. Oy�

It�s been done!
http://ufos.about.com/gi/dynamic/off...w.seekye1.com/

Treacle Worshipper · 03-22-2003, 08:29 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by marduck
"It would DESTROY Christianity. If the people on other planets never had a Jesus, it would be quite confusing to the Christians. Jesus is supposed to be the only Son of God. He would have to go to every planet. If he did not go to every planet, then that would mean that either 1. Christians have to evangelize the universe, or 2. Jesus' death is not necessary. "

ahhhh! but what if the alien Adam & Eve didn't eat that apple! They wouldn't need a visit from Jesus!

I can see it now, aliens land and start asking questions about all these crosses they see, someone explains our Bible to them,
The aliens recoil in horror
"Great Klattu's ghost!! we have stumbled upon the Planet of sinners! the ones who ate the apple!!! this is the Devil's Planet! Come we must leave at once!! Gort! lock & load! we must destroy this place!!!!!

I've never understood why a lot of Xians tend to assume that ETs would need to be saved. It seems to me that if the Fall is true, then it wouldn't have had any effect on ET organisms. Marduck's scenario is the one most likely to be true, AFAIAC, if Xnty is true

Can you imagine what it would be like to meet an "unfallen" race?

TW

happyboy · 03-23-2003, 02:05 PM

of course aliens don't exist! if it's not in the wholey bibble, then it's a satanic LIE!

don't you people understand?!? science and reason takes you away from our Lord and Savior!!!! deconvert from your foolish ways, lest demons and devils fry your souls for all eternity!

(remember, only a LOVING God would consign unbelievers to hell. isn't God loving?)

Carrie · 03-23-2003, 04:45 PM

Think of all the violence and war caused by religion between nations. Imagine that same violence between other planets?! Holy wars on a intergalactic scale! If we clash with aliens, it could very well be over religion, especially if they come here and start telling us that our beliefs are bogus. They might try to convert the world to Atheism! God forbid!

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03-21-2003, 05:08 PM	#21
Biff the unclean Banned Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: an inaccessible island fortress Posts: 10,638	Be careful. While chimps like Kanzi can learn a lot of signs, they have little talent for stringing them together to make coherent sentences. That isn't actually the case. I work with gorillas, not all that far from Livermore, out on the peninsula. The grammar they use might not be proper English grammar but I would say it's every bit as good as that used by our local high school students. But the apes "talk" a great deal and have done so for years so they are very good at it. They have IQ's in the mid 80's which is low normal for a human but by no means retarded. Sentence structure tends to be simple. "Hurry hungry hurry sandwich do there" was an emphatic comment about the slow service at lunch time today. What must be kept in mind is that they aren't humans but they aren't parrots either. They know what they are saying, they know what you are saying. They are quite coherent. And nobody has succeeded in communicating in complete sentences with some cetacean, as far as I know. There was a break through in Cetacean communication about four years back. Dolphins don't speak in sentences, they speak in sonar images. They can project "sonograms" (for lack of a better word) to whomever they are speaking to. So the listener rather than have an abstract message (as we do with abstract sounds having agreeded upon meanings) gets a concrete message. You know how we might say ' you described that so beautifully that I can almost see it'? Well with Dolphins there is no almost about it. They can 'see' what is being said.

03-22-2003, 07:04 AM	#22
Marduk Veteran Member Join Date: Aug 2000 Location: the 10th planet Posts: 5,065	�I can just hear the wackier fundies saying that the aliens are actually demons from satan, sent to trick us into their unrighteous ways. Oy� It�s been done! http://ufos.about.com/gi/dynamic/off...w.seekye1.com/

03-23-2003, 02:05 PM	#24
happyboy Regular Member Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: on the border between here and there, WV Posts: 373	of course aliens don't exist! if it's not in the wholey bibble, then it's a satanic LIE! don't you people understand?!? science and reason takes you away from our Lord and Savior!!!! deconvert from your foolish ways, lest demons and devils fry your souls for all eternity! (remember, only a LOVING God would consign unbelievers to hell. isn't God loving?)

03-23-2003, 04:45 PM	#25
Carrie Regular Member Join Date: Feb 2003 Location: Midwest Posts: 424	Think of all the violence and war caused by religion between nations. Imagine that same violence between other planets?! Holy wars on a intergalactic scale! If we clash with aliens, it could very well be over religion, especially if they come here and start telling us that our beliefs are bogus. They might try to convert the world to Atheism! God forbid!

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