Freethought & Rationalism Archive

Devilnaut · 08-19-2002, 01:37 PM

My reason for believing that belief requires a reason is that I notice that none of my own beliefs have appeared randomly in my head.

RogerLeeCooke · 08-19-2002, 03:20 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by SUTG:
<strong>

What is your reason for believeing that statement?</strong>

Any number can play this game. Four-year-olds are extremely good at it. Just try to explain something to them. They will respond to every sentence with "Why?" Maybe SUTG is a 4-year-old.

Hobbs · 08-19-2002, 04:28 PM

Ah, SUTG, you're back. Can you address my question of why it is that in matters of theology, morality, politics, etc., God always invariably agrees with his followers? If you think about that issue for a while, you may get an idea of why I don't believe in a god (or at least not in a knowable one that exists independently of its believers' minds).

gilly54 · 08-19-2002, 05:46 PM

AtlanticCitySlave posted on the first page of this thread:

Quote:

I must say, as an atheist, it's a little sad seeing how pathetic the answers are so far to the question.

Is anyone else still eagerly anticipating his brilliant retort now that we are five pages into this thread?

Gilly

Your.Master · 08-23-2002, 07:36 AM

>>1. The Bible heavily uses actual places and actual people like in the OT, the Israelites were enslaved in Egypt and in The NT we have people like Pontius Pilate who was mentioned by the Roman Historian Tacitus, it talks of Roman rule over the Israelites, which was a historical event, thus, the christians peddle the bible stories as history. (whether or not we agree that they are history is a totally different matter).
In contrast, the Greek mythologies dont have such a strong enmeshment with historical elements.

"Real" places like heaven and hell? It only uses real places exclusively if you already believe in it, which, surprise, so does Greek Mythology. People once believed in that, too, but then bad Christians (not all Christians, I say, but bad Christians) killed them. Greek Mythology had the Trojan wars, which were real, and the account of the birth of Athena is often related to the explosion of the island of Thera. Greek Mythology includes many places within Greece that are real, not the least of which is Mount Olympus.

>>2. The story of Apollos with his father Zeus are universally studied under Greek mythology, NOT Greek history. This suggests their already established status as MYTHS.

That is irrelevant. The analogy is perfect. In comparison to Greek Mythology, everybody would seem to be an "atheist" (I know I'm using the word wrongly, but still). When religious people find reasons for not believing in these gods, it is easily transferrable to their God. Yet Greek Mythology was an immensely popular religion at some point in the distant past. Besides that, it doesn't matter what they are studied under, that doesn't make them more or less true.

In Ontario, Canada, evolution is taught under history. I think *almost* all on this forum would accept evolution as history, but the massively-religious Creationists don't. It really isn't any evidence against them that evolution is studied under history. The evidence against them is there, but not in what we study it under.

>>3. The historicity of many biblical characters is commonly accepted among biblical and history scholars UNLIKE that of the Olympian deities.

The historicity of many are also contested. Further, we have less reliable records as to the origins of the Olympian deities simply because they are older. Besides that, there are, in fact, historians who link mythological characters with historical figures. Minos had his minotaur in the myths, but Minos was real, and his enormous and confusing palace WAS historically called "labyrinthine". Jesus was real, and it seems probably he did some of the stuff in the Bible, but walking on water and having angels move his soul around is a bit much.

Just because the ancient Greek religion is universally discounted doesn't make it a bad analogy. In fact, it makes it an excellent one.

ex-preacher · 08-23-2002, 07:44 AM

I'm an atheist because my father was mean to me.

Also, I want to go to hell. Lots of neat people are already there.

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08-19-2002, 01:37 PM	#101
Devilnaut Regular Member Join Date: Mar 2001 Location: Winnipeg, Manitoba, Canada Posts: 374	My reason for believing that belief requires a reason is that I notice that none of my own beliefs have appeared randomly in my head.

08-19-2002, 04:28 PM	#103
Hobbs Senior Member Join Date: Jul 2000 Posts: 929	Ah, SUTG, you're back. Can you address my question of why it is that in matters of theology, morality, politics, etc., God always invariably agrees with his followers? If you think about that issue for a while, you may get an idea of why I don't believe in a god (or at least not in a knowable one that exists independently of its believers' minds).

08-23-2002, 07:36 AM	#105
Your.Master Junior Member Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: Ontario, Canada Posts: 5	>>1. The Bible heavily uses actual places and actual people like in the OT, the Israelites were enslaved in Egypt and in The NT we have people like Pontius Pilate who was mentioned by the Roman Historian Tacitus, it talks of Roman rule over the Israelites, which was a historical event, thus, the christians peddle the bible stories as history. (whether or not we agree that they are history is a totally different matter). In contrast, the Greek mythologies dont have such a strong enmeshment with historical elements. "Real" places like heaven and hell? It only uses real places exclusively if you already believe in it, which, surprise, so does Greek Mythology. People once believed in that, too, but then bad Christians (not all Christians, I say, but bad Christians) killed them. Greek Mythology had the Trojan wars, which were real, and the account of the birth of Athena is often related to the explosion of the island of Thera. Greek Mythology includes many places within Greece that are real, not the least of which is Mount Olympus. >>2. The story of Apollos with his father Zeus are universally studied under Greek mythology, NOT Greek history. This suggests their already established status as MYTHS. That is irrelevant. The analogy is perfect. In comparison to Greek Mythology, everybody would seem to be an "atheist" (I know I'm using the word wrongly, but still). When religious people find reasons for not believing in these gods, it is easily transferrable to their God. Yet Greek Mythology was an immensely popular religion at some point in the distant past. Besides that, it doesn't matter what they are studied under, that doesn't make them more or less true. In Ontario, Canada, evolution is taught under history. I think almost all on this forum would accept evolution as history, but the massively-religious Creationists don't. It really isn't any evidence against them that evolution is studied under history. The evidence against them is there, but not in what we study it under. >>3. The historicity of many biblical characters is commonly accepted among biblical and history scholars UNLIKE that of the Olympian deities. The historicity of many are also contested. Further, we have less reliable records as to the origins of the Olympian deities simply because they are older. Besides that, there are, in fact, historians who link mythological characters with historical figures. Minos had his minotaur in the myths, but Minos was real, and his enormous and confusing palace WAS historically called "labyrinthine". Jesus was real, and it seems probably he did some of the stuff in the Bible, but walking on water and having angels move his soul around is a bit much. Just because the ancient Greek religion is universally discounted doesn't make it a bad analogy. In fact, it makes it an excellent one.

08-23-2002, 07:44 AM	#106
ex-preacher Veteran Member Join Date: Jul 2001 Location: University of Arkansas Posts: 1,033	I'm an atheist because my father was mean to me. Also, I want to go to hell. Lots of neat people are already there.

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