echidna

A harmonious discord, I quite agree.

And similarly I also find some harmonies quite discordant.

Tribalgroove

It is perhaps a misapropriation to even describe a soul in terms of beauty.

Investigating the etymology of the word "soul" from various cultures, one finds two very interesting correlations. First, that nearly every culture has such an expression, and second, that nearly every culture derives the word from a concept of breath. Essentially, the observation that living creatures breathe, and that breath departs a dying creature. Soul, is thus an ancient misdiagnosis of an observed event.

Regardless of its origins, however, it has come to mean something very different. It has been applied to what we perceive as certain intangible characteristics, and I could not phrase it more appropriately than Eudaimonia did.

I would question the nature of beauty, though.
Is it a acknoledgement of patterns that comprise the universe? Is it an instance in which physical elements conspire to provoke awe? Is it an evolutionary trait to promote attraction? Perhaps it exists, but defining it is purely conceptual, and ultimately undefinable.

Comenius

Concerning the nature of beauty (which is where I figured this thread would eventually end), I think that "beauty" is both subjective and self-evident. Beauty is, to a degree, in the eye of the beholder, as Shakespeare said. Some people find beauty in a piece of music by Mozart and others find beauty in a Nine Inch Nails song. However, when is beauty NOT subjective? **Wimpy Disclaimer: I am definitely in over my head here intellectually but I can't resist trying!**

I would offer that beauty is not subjective when you place it into proportional context (an idea from Augustine) and further when you add the aspect of self (or even species) preservation (i.e., beauty leads to the bettering of the individual and mankind and something beautiful, while remaining beautiful, becomes marred by being placed outside of the context that makes it beautiful). The natural affect of beauty is desire. The desire can be healty or unhealthy considering the aspect of self or species preservation.

Let me give an example of what I mean by proportional context and desire in relation to the nature of beauty. I will use the idea of female beauty. A beautiful woman's physical beauty is related to her measurments (proportions) and the fact that the affect of her beauty on men is to love her, cherish her and produce children by her (thus propagation of the species). I can admire a beautiful woman when I see one on the street or a picture of one in a magazine, however, the context (and thus the desire) would change if that magazine was "Hustler." Why? Wouldn't the same woman, so nicely dressed and presented in "Cosmo" still be equally beautiful undressed and fingering herself in "Hustler" or "Playboy"? The short answer is yes, she's still beautiful...but with the qualifier that in porn her beauty is being exploited and is out of context, and so therefore, while still beautiful, it becomes something harmful. It is harmful because (1) her beauty is being exploited, and (2) her beauty can cause societal problems (link betwen porn and crime).

Thoughts?

Pomp

I can't leave this one alone.

Comenius said:

The natural affect of beauty is desire. The desire can be healty or unhealthy considering the aspect of self or species preservation.

I don't think you avoid subjectivity this way. Different people experience desire due to different stimuli.

...in porn her beauty is being exploited and is out of context, and so therefore, while still beautiful, it becomes something harmful. It is harmful because (1) her beauty is being exploited,

No less than it is beng exploited to sell Cosmo.

(2) her beauty can cause societal problems (link betwen porn and crime).

Do you have evidence of this link?

Comenius

Pompous,

There are sociological studies which link porn and crime (particularly rape). One article I found is entitled "The Documented Effects of Pornography" from Forerunner magazine.

[url]http://www.forerunner.com/forerunner/X0388_Effects_of_Pornograp.html/[url]

I will try and find other links.

Do you think porn is a healthy thing and causes minimal societal problems? I know this thread is not specifically on porn but, in order to persue what a beautiful soul is, this tangent could be productive.

Comenius

Aargh! I botched the url for that link. Let me try again.

<a href="http://www.forerunner.com/forerunner/X0388_Effects_of_Pornograp.html" target="_blank">http://www.forerunner.com/forerunner/X0388_Effects_of_Pornograp.html</A>

tronvillain

Comenius:
I don't know about Pompous Bastard, but I do. I think that thread's already been done, but I suppose it could be done again.

Pomp

What tron said.

That document you linked to is on a religious anti-porn site and half the footnotes reference the Bible. Unless we really want to do this discussion again, I'm not going to bother looking up the other primary materials referenced. Sorry.

Ms. Siv

Frankly, I'd rather that teenagers get off on porn (or masturbation) rather than indulge in unprotected sex.

- Sivakami.