Freethought & Rationalism Archive

Abel Stable · 05-08-2003, 01:12 PM

Quote:

i hope this dream of legalized drugs never comes to pass in this country. but by all means, let it happen accross europe and asia.

Speaking of morals - this doesn't sound like a very moral statement for you to make (given your opinions on legalization). Is it moral to desire perceived disaster upon half of the world?
You're just tooo compassionate, fatherphil.

Majestyk · 05-08-2003, 01:52 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by fatherphil
tobacco companies would move into the legal trade of marketing drugs as would other corporations. there would be a strong push to encourage more consumption of the product on all levels. surely these efforts would pay off by increasing the number of consumers. with that increase there would be an increase in the number of health and addiction problems associated with drug use. these issues would soon rival if not surpass the level of problems from alcoholism and tobacco use.

Someone will fill the void in the market but how will they be able to market their product? Surely, you don't forsee television or radio being involved?

In any event, education is the key to prevention. And I'm talking about the honest, coherent, presentation of facts. Not the dishonest, hysterical, hyperbola that is being spewed across the airwaves and dictated in classrooms by uniformed authoritarian figures (notice how easy it is to use either one or the other).

Quote:

Originally posted by fatherphil
i hope this dream of legalized drugs never comes to pass in this country. but by all means, let it happen across europe and asia.

Then it is your hope that the degradation of our liberties, right of self-determination, and civil protections continues. It must be your hope that productive, decent, and otherwise innocent people are subjected to brutality and confinement for that which, does not directly violate the rights or property of another. Your hope condemns your fellow citizens to an ever increasing police state solely for the purpose of imposing your standard of morality on others.

*edit* removed unnecessary and possibly misunderstood comment.

fatherphil · 05-08-2003, 02:28 PM

no, my hope for my fellow man is a life free from drug use. one which he will find no need or desire to alter his state of conciousness and thereby risk damage to his body and mind. many do not share that hope and for them i just assume they embark on their drug utopia elsewhere. certainly in a place where they would pose not strain on the tax revenues of my society.

i imagine advertising would mirror that currently being conducted for beer and liquor. probably end up with the zig zag guy on a stock car.

Majestyk · 05-08-2003, 03:09 PM

Isn't that hope for a utopian world, where people do not feel the need for mood altering substances, which is a noble idea, failing to recognize the reality of our situation today? Would not the path to such a world demand that the choice be left to the individual and that the society provide the education necessary for that individual to come to the conclusion that they have no need for such devices, on their own?

Majestyk · 05-08-2003, 03:12 PM

btw, I think part of our problem today is the hypocritical or delusional disparity between the advertising restrictions imposed on liquor and beer. Not to mention the similarly classified disparity in the treatment of alcohol as opposed to other narcotics.

fatherphil · 05-08-2003, 06:51 PM

you'll have one side pushing for education and trying to persuade folks to not use drugs while you'll have a more powerful group making money by persuading folks to use drugs. also who will pay for the education of the masses away from drug use?

Majestyk · 05-08-2003, 10:13 PM

Who pays for enforcement and incarceration, now? Who pays for for education concerning health and biology? The facts of drug use can and should be taught as part of basic health and nutrition. With legalization comes, the tax base to fund the education.

fatherphil · 05-08-2003, 10:19 PM

so legalize it so we can generate the funds through taxation on its use to encourage folks not to use it. maybe canada will show us all how well this set-up is going to work.

Salmon of Doubt · 05-09-2003, 02:50 AM

Quote:

i hope this dream of legalized drugs never comes to pass in this country. but by all means, let it happen accross europe and asia.

Well now that isn't very charitable! How would you like it if I said that I hope rape and murder are legalised in the USA because that means we won't have to deal with them over here?

Personally I agree with you, I hope we do get legalised drugs in Europe, and I hope it all works wonderfully, and we can set an example to the good old backwards USA about how it can be done. But I think legalising certain drugs is a good idea. It's not very charitable to wish something you think is bad on someone else, and I'm afraid it just reinforces the stereotype of Americans not giving a shit about the rest of the world they live in.

fatherphil · 05-09-2003, 07:42 AM

well for what its worth, if any country were to undertake such folly as legalizing drug use my hope would be for the best but my expectation would be for the worse. there would be little satisfaction in being right on the social outcome.

btw, no country gives a hang about the rest of the world. america is just an easy target for that accusation by being the biggest guys on the block.

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05-08-2003, 02:28 PM	#103
fatherphil Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: burbank Posts: 758	no, my hope for my fellow man is a life free from drug use. one which he will find no need or desire to alter his state of conciousness and thereby risk damage to his body and mind. many do not share that hope and for them i just assume they embark on their drug utopia elsewhere. certainly in a place where they would pose not strain on the tax revenues of my society. i imagine advertising would mirror that currently being conducted for beer and liquor. probably end up with the zig zag guy on a stock car.

05-08-2003, 03:09 PM	#104
Majestyk Veteran Member Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Northeast Ohio Posts: 2,846	Isn't that hope for a utopian world, where people do not feel the need for mood altering substances, which is a noble idea, failing to recognize the reality of our situation today? Would not the path to such a world demand that the choice be left to the individual and that the society provide the education necessary for that individual to come to the conclusion that they have no need for such devices, on their own?

05-08-2003, 03:12 PM	#105
Majestyk Veteran Member Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Northeast Ohio Posts: 2,846	btw, I think part of our problem today is the hypocritical or delusional disparity between the advertising restrictions imposed on liquor and beer. Not to mention the similarly classified disparity in the treatment of alcohol as opposed to other narcotics.

05-08-2003, 06:51 PM	#106
fatherphil Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: burbank Posts: 758	you'll have one side pushing for education and trying to persuade folks to not use drugs while you'll have a more powerful group making money by persuading folks to use drugs. also who will pay for the education of the masses away from drug use?

05-08-2003, 10:13 PM	#107
Majestyk Veteran Member Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Northeast Ohio Posts: 2,846	Who pays for enforcement and incarceration, now? Who pays for for education concerning health and biology? The facts of drug use can and should be taught as part of basic health and nutrition. With legalization comes, the tax base to fund the education.

05-08-2003, 10:19 PM	#108
fatherphil Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: burbank Posts: 758	so legalize it so we can generate the funds through taxation on its use to encourage folks not to use it. maybe canada will show us all how well this set-up is going to work.

05-09-2003, 07:42 AM	#110
fatherphil Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: burbank Posts: 758	well for what its worth, if any country were to undertake such folly as legalizing drug use my hope would be for the best but my expectation would be for the worse. there would be little satisfaction in being right on the social outcome. btw, no country gives a hang about the rest of the world. america is just an easy target for that accusation by being the biggest guys on the block.

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