scombrid

Atkins
I get "backed up" just reading that. Does the Atkins diet come with a supply of Preparation H as well?

BTW Dr Rick: I liked that last summary of dietary principles. The bit about high glycemic carbs was spot on. If I start getting hungry and eat something sugary, be it an apple or a hoho, I get even hungrier within the hour. However, eating some nuts or meat with the high glycemic food seems to mitigate the insulin response.


My take on the diet/excercise thing follows:

I will start with a disclaimer. I'm a huge fan of resistance training in addtion to aerobics for everybody. All advice here is for people engaged in moderate(5hrs/week) to strenuous(15hrs/week) activity. I don't think any diet is worthwhile without accompanying excercise. Additionally, inconsistant excercise is just about as useless as no excercise. Inconsistency prevents your body from adjusting to the training load. Your body's adjustment to training is what brings desirable results.

Don't look at a diet as something that will end, or it will end and you'll revert back to the way you were. Too often people reduce their caloric intake by just restricting foods but without changing bad eating habits. This makes one ridiculously hungry. Additionally, if you reduce calorinc intake and stay sedentary you will lose just as much muscle as fat thus slowing your metabolism and causing a bad rebound weight gain when you increase intake again.

Grazing all day on a diet with a low glycemic load and a good balance of protein and unsaturated fats is the best way I know to reduce the total caloric intake for the day without getting that awful hungry feeling. It is also a sustainable diet. It seems to speed up the base metabolism because your body never hits that pre-meal low that occurs when feedings are 4 or more hours apart. The grazing method does require some meal planning. You end up eating 5 300-500kcal meals in a day if you're a typical adult male. Each little meal needs to have a balance of macronutrients.


I think a body can be manipulated to different equilibriums. My 61 year old father (5'5") was 170lbs for two decades. His waist measured 10" larger than his inseem. His doctor put him on many calorie reduction diets and he'd drop some weight, get satisfied with his size and go back to eating his usual cheese and crackers and such. He always gained the weight back. He also has a cholesterol problem. The doctor eventually decided that diet couldn't work for dad and threatened to put him on Lipitor. Dad decided that he'd rather change his lifestyle than destroy his liver. He went on a 1500-1800kcal diet spaced over 5meals in a day (basically, he immitated my diet just with smaller portions). He quit eating any Mayonaise, butter, margarine, cheese (that fat free soy cheese of his is actually pretty good), eggs, ground meats, white bread, etc.). His meals now all include high fiber complex carbs and a protein source (eggs beaters in the AM at lean meats the rest of the day). His weight dropped from 170 to 135 in a year. The doctor told him to get back to 140 so Dad added natural(no added hydrogenated oils) peanut butter to his diet so get his daily intake to 2000kcal and add some healthy oils to his diet. He's moderately active.

His excercises:
daily push-ups to start the day, never rides an elevator and parks 1/4mile from his building, chops wood for an hour or so almost daily in the winter, cuts 3acres with a push-mower, uses a row boat in the creek instead of a motor. Oh, as for his cholesterol, it's the lowest it's been in 3decades, sans medication.

I know it's just an annecdote but it's one case where a slight calorie reduction coupled with a rearrangement of eating habits resulted in drastic weight reduction and improvement of blood chemistry.


My story:
I was a fat little kid. I always finished last when we ran laps at soccer practice. However, I was a talented goalkeeper so the coach didn't cut me. As we aged I realized that I needed to lean down to improve my agility if I wanted to stay competitive. At age 13 I went on a moderate diet and started eating fruits instead of chips and such. I grew 5" without gaining a pound an suddenly I was slim and fast. I had been pudgy my whole life. Had I not had a year round sport I would've stayed pudgy and thought that was my natural body type. Had I dieted without the intense excercise that accompanied playing developmental soccer I would have dropped my metabolism. I think I changed my body type by remaining active while slightly limiting my intake. Now I bodybuild and kayak. I have no idea what my bodytype would be if I didn't excercise 5-6days per week. (total training volume ~12-15hrs/week)

I've had my weight as low as 150lbs on a 5small (500kcal) meals per day diet without feeling hungry. Now I'm on 5meals(1000kcal)per day and I weigh 205lbs and gaining ~1lb per week indicating a daily surplus of ~500kcal. If I tweek down the portions I drop weight very quickly without feeling really hungry. Although, if I miss a meal I feel like I'm going to pass out. On my high cal diet I go heavy on the high glycemic carbs to force glycogen loading into the muscle and liver for extra energy in workouts.

I'm focused more on athletic performance than anything else. That helps me maintain perspective and motivation. It's a lot more tangible as a goal than physical appearance as well.


I think the easiest way to reach your diet goals is to set performance goals in the gym, on the track, on your bike, whereever. Pick an athletic endeavor and go for it.

There is a 56yr old guy at the gym that I attend that has decreased his bodyfat from 20% to 10% in 1.5yrs. He hasn't really lost any weight though, just changed his body composition. His bench press max has gone from 135-245 and he has better definiation than most 30yr-olds. He achieved this by 5days per week in the gym (1.5-2hrs per session) and cutting out junk food and alcohol. He has been extraordinarilly consistant in diet and training.

Cipher Girl

Hi Bree

The diet does not seem to fool the body into anything. Avoiding high calorie foods loaded with starches and sugars, seems to keep the blood sugar levels steady instead of lots of highs and lows. Also foods such as breads and pastas are lows in vitamins and high in calories. Foods such as lean meat, fruits and vegtables have much more nutrition per calorie.

The book bases the diet upon the diet that paeleolithic peoples ate before agriculture. This is the diet that humans have evolved eating. These people had to eat much more to get the same calories that people who eat a diet high in carbohydrates. Also in the book, are some mentions of studies done on the Eskimos. They eat a diet high in meat and fat, and seem to suffer no ill effects with this diet. But the moment they adopt a more modern diet, they seem to start suffering obesity, diabetes, and heart trouble.

Some years ago, when I started to put on exta weight after I turned 30, I tried a low fat diet, with lots of grains. I was constantly hungry and put on weight. My choleresterol levels went over 200 and my blood pressure rose as well. I also had trouble exercising and keeping muscle tone and my arthritis got worse. I knew that this was not working for me.

When I'm on the diet, I've had no trouble keeping muscle tone with only light to moderate excercise. Also avoiding vegtable oils except for olive oil has cleared up my complexion. But the diet is hard to keep up when I have to travel.

All I know is that this diet seems to work for me. I can't say how it will work for others, but the logic behind the diet seems to make a lot of sense. This is the diet that we evolved to eat over many tens of thousands of years.

This diet is very similar to the Atkins diet but all of the proteins come from meat, fish, and seafood instead of supplements based on dairy and soy.

Bill

The Atkins diet puts your body into a state of ketosis. You measure the success of the diet (for you) with the little sticks that turn color when ketones are present in your urine. Atkins says that this means you are almost litterally pissing away your excess weight. The state of ketosis is (according to Atkins) supposed to be associated with the breakdown of fat cells to be used for "food" by the rest of your body.

== Bill

Benjamin Franklin

<a href="http://www.timesonline.co.uk/article/0,,7-355823,00.html" target="_blank">http://www.timesonline.co.uk/article/0,,7-355823,00.html</a>

In today times(UK), there is an article supporting the Atkins diet

I have questions which I hope someone can answer. In this article it claims that refined carbohydrates like pasta, rice, only appeared in the last 10000 years, with the advent of the the argicultural society. So what was the main source of carbohydrates for humans before the advent of the agricultural society.

And is there any truth in the claim that too much protein damages your kidney.


Tjun Kiat

Toto

Fruit, I would think. Fruit has a lot of sugar, but in its natural state it also has a lot of fiber. Possibly also root vegetables, although those might not have been edible until the invention of cooking. There are also carbohydrates in organ meats.

DarkDruid

Personal story, folks, so bear with...

When I was 16, my dad got wind of the Atkin's diet, or at least some "low-carb" thing like it. Since he is a cyclist and a doctor, he's quite interested in diets and such. At that time, I weighted a hefty 230-240lbs and was a mere 5'10". Without even knowing all that was in any of the books, I decided to give it a try and simply "avoid carbs" for a bit. By the end of the summer (it was spring when I first even heard of it) I was down to 210lbs. and stayed that way for two years. Then I decided to go on it again and knocked off that 10-12lbs that was keeping me over 200. That has managed to stay off until the present. I'm about to go on it again, attempting to put myself down to 180-ish range.

Now, mind you I am not athletic at all, and have always been a fat little child. Also, I never even read the acctual Atkin's book! My dad, whom I have a casual relationship with, just told me that when they fatten a pig, they feed it potatoes and pancakes, and not bacon or cheese burgers. The theory was sound enough for me to try, so all I did was avoid candy, high-carb stuff, drink plenty of water, eat my share of meat, eat a ton of vegatables, and eat the occassional fruit for vitamins. I stand here today as a 19-year-old male who weighs under 200lbs.

Now, I'm not even pretending to know all the facts behind it or how it works and why. All I know is a simple cause and effect. It worked for me. Explain it however you wish.

Also, I've noticed that the people who speak the loudest agaist the diet are people who have never been fat.

[ July 15, 2002: Message edited by: DarkDruid ]</p>

Dr Rick

There is a large body of evidence that high dietary protein is associated with more rapid progression of renal (kidney) damage in individuals with underlying kidney problems such as diabetic nephropathy, and high protein diets may increase the risk of kidney stone formation.

The risk to healthy individuals has not been definitively established, but it appears to be minimal.

Rick

The Other Michael

Hi Rick,

How does the diet prescribed to diabetics compare to the Atkins and others? Aren't they supposed to cut way back on the complex carbs and sugars?

thanks,
Michael

brighid

Thank you Robert, those are some of the points I was trying to make before but perhaps failed in presenting them effectively. I don’t know enough about the Atkins Diet to express anything other then my opinion. I don’t think there have been any long-term clinical tests to determine if a person could actually maintain this “diet” indefinitely. The no carb, eat only eggs, meat, cheese kind of diet seems counter intuitive to life long healthy eating and although it will make one loose weight, and even drop cholesterol etc. is a diet devoid of fruits, vegetables, legumes, and whole grains actually healthy? Should we be focusing on weight alone, or over all health?

I haven’t had a chance to read some of the posts I have missed while absent, so if I am rehashing anything I apologize. I would say 50% of my office has been on the Atkins Diet at one point in time and all have lost weight, but like so many dieters they are amongst those who have lost weight only to gain it back again. I don’t think any program should be aimed at loosing weight, but learning how to eat healthy to loose or maintain a desirable body weight for the remainder of our lives should be the object of any good weight loss, management, and lifestyle program.

Lean body mass burns 50 calories per pound in a resting state. So, if your increase your lean body mass through resistance and weight training you increase your body’s ability to burn calories in a resting state. Add 5 lbs of lean muscle mass and increase your daily calorie expenditure by 250 calories. Add 10 and increase it by 500 calories and so on and so forth. Lean body mass is imperative to over all health and resistance/weight training should be a part of EVERY exercise plan. If it’s not I think it should be questioned as spurious. Aerobic activity is necessary to get that fire burning, but if you engage in aerobic activity only you will inhibit your bodies ability to burn calories and you will hit a plateau. You may weigh more because of the lean mass, but lean mass also takes up less overall space, thereby making you smaller and it will help prevent things like osteoporosis.

As pointed out you need to engage in regular and intense exercise. It doesn’t need to be for 15-20 hours a week, unless you are an elite athlete. One hour, six days a week, with rest, proper nutrition, and hydration will keep you fit and trim. The hardest part is dedicating oneself to that path.

I have mentioned the Body For Life program before and it does not require you buy their supplements, or go on any special program. It provides proven guidelines about eating 6 proportioned meals a day, with a serving of protein and low gi-carbs and vegetables in 2-3 meals. It suggests lean meats, whole grains, fruits and vegetables and once a week it encourages a “treat” day to eat anything you want. This way you are never depriving yourself. It does require dedication, just as anything does. But because most people are uneducated about exercise and nutrition I feel it provides the most comprehensive and practical base for achieving life long fitness goals. You won’t be constipated, you won’t be dehydrated, you will have more energy and you will loose weight and be able to maintain it forever. The Energy and Muscle Media magazines demonstrate the proper way to do weight training and resistance exercises and I love the recipes they give each month. I have used many and there isn’t one I haven’t liked.

There is no ONE right way for every one. Everyone will hit plateaus, you will hit your set-point (and goodness knows I have a great understanding of how stubborn my own body is) and something will work for me, but not for you. But I think there are basic principles and from there each of us must tweak our own system. I have lost 2 lbs this week equal to 1% body fat. I have eaten 5-6 nutritious meals a day, and I have not deprived myself of a single food I love. Sunday my family and I enjoyed Italian Sausage, bread, donuts, eggs, bacon, orange juice and ice cream at various points during the day. My husband has had the exact same results – 2lbs, 1% body fat this week. I have just entered week 3 of 12 and my total loss has been 4 lbs and 2% body fat. If I maintain this healthy loss I will have lost 24 lbs in 12 weeks and reduced my body fat by 10-12%. I will have significantly improved my health and I can maintain these eating habits and exercise plan indefinitely. 3 days a week I do aerobics for 20 minutes – who doesn’t have 20 minutes in the morning to exercise? I spend 45 minutes hitting the weights the other three days. I also do some 20 minutes of yoga with my workouts – but that isn’t required.

I do like protein shakes and bars because sometimes I just don’t have time to prepare a meal. I eat 4-5 whole food meals and 1-2 protein drink or bar meals a day. My absolute favorite protein drink is the Myoplex Cappuccino Lite. We recently purchased Vitapro Shakes and we split it because it has 42 g of protein and I think 3 g of carbs. I also like Genisoy bars and shakes. They have great texture and flavor, but I have had to eliminate them until my hormone levels even out. Metrx makes some good shakes, but they are a bit thick so I doctor them up. Nitrotech makes a pretty good bar, but it will make you a bit gassy as both my husband and I have experienced, and a few others we know.

Every Monday before work I visit our local grocery store and stock up on the things I will need for the week: fruits, vegetables, a loaf of whole grain bread, tuna, salad, cottage cheese, egg beaters and maybe some yogurt. I have some staples at work like salad dressing with balsamic vinaigrette, olive oil and herbs and a light ranch dressing, some V8, other spices (red pepper, salt, Mrs. Dash Italian Seasonings) San Pellegrino and wheat germ. I can make everything I need quickly and eat it at my desk. I keep a couple of protein bars in a drawer if I need them.

I have tried to re-educate myself about the caloric contents of food. Sometimes we think we are eating healthy and the food is loaded with sugar, fat, carbs and has no redeeming protein. Friday nights use to be pizza night and I could easily eat 3 pieces of a Big New Yorker Sausage Pizza from Pizza Hut – 2 pcs has 1,100 calories and I don’t remember how many grams of saturated fat – my goodness, no wonder I gained weight!

Brighid

Dr Rick

...Good question: the answer is "no" because of the evidence that high dietary protein may damage diabetic kidneys.

The American Diabetes Association currently recommends a diet that gets most of its calories from carbohydrates and monounsaturated fats:

General Nutritional Recommendations for Patients with diabetes melitus

These recommendations are for diabetics and may not be applicable to the general population.

Diabetics and any other persons with a chronic medical condition should not undertake a weight-loss diet without the advice of a healthcare professional.

Rick

[ July 15, 2002: Message edited by: rbochnermd ]</p>