Freethought & Rationalism Archive

wdog · 07-18-2003, 04:47 AM

Dr GH,

I am not surprised. again I don't give a damn what they want to believe, but I have also firsthand experienced the activism of this crowd which is the real danger and we should not underestimate them. in many areas of the US the electorate is probably more on their side and tactics like you describe is not going to help.

It helps to debate science, even though we all know there really isn't a debate. The reality though is that this is more a political fight than anything for the minds of the average public. Creationists realize that better than the scientific community does and hence employ political tactics (some dirty). Sometimes I see scientists and infidels act as though all they have to do is simply show where creationism is wrong scientifically. If that were the case then YE creationism would have been dead long ago as anyone with half a brain can study it and understand.

Non-praying Mantis · 07-18-2003, 06:22 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by pz
I suspect (thanks to Dr GH) that malachi256 teaches at a christian 'college', fortunately. Since he's probably at a place that doesn't even offer a pretense of a secular education, we don't have to worry too much, yet, about our kids wasting their time in his class.

Hmmm, that's odd...

Malachi256 did specifically say that he teaches at a community college. All of the CCs that I know about are state government run institutions. They couldn't have a sectarian bent. At least, AFAIK.

NPM

Roland98 · 07-18-2003, 07:29 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Non-praying Mantis
Hmmm, that's odd...

Malachi256 did specifically say that he teaches at a community college. All of the CCs that I know about are state government run institutions. They couldn't have a sectarian bent. At least, AFAIK.

NPM

Also, at some of those freaky fundamentalist colleges, would they even commit the blasphemy of teaching evolution (even if from a creationist?) And didn't he mention that he had students that disagreed with him as far as YEC (or something along those lines?)

dangin · 07-18-2003, 08:05 AM

Hey these are all my exgirlfriends. I thought I hid the bodies better than that but. . .

Seriously, I don't think someone who argues a YEC worldview should complain that some of what he says is made to look, or is pointed out as absurd. How can you debate the absurd without pointing out the absurdity?

Gracchus · 07-18-2003, 08:53 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Non-praying Mantis
Hmmm, that's odd...

Malachi256 did specifically say that he teaches at a community college. All of the CCs that I know about are state government run institutions. They couldn't have a sectarian bent. At least, AFAIK.

NPM

Perhaps Malachi256 misspoke himself? Nah! No creationist would ever do that. God would get'm.

emotional · 07-18-2003, 09:11 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by wdog
It helps to debate science, even though we all know there really isn't a debate. The reality though is that this is more a political fight than anything for the minds of the average public. Creationists realize that better than the scientific community does and hence employ political tactics (some dirty). Sometimes I see scientists and infidels act as though all they have to do is simply show where creationism is wrong scientifically. If that were the case then YE creationism would have been dead long ago as anyone with half a brain can study it and understand.

It's also a debate about worldviews. I've read this article at Diakrisis Ministries:

Spirit of Babel

and it's got an entire world history founded upon young-earth creationism. Take away YEC and fundies' worldview falls apart. Particularly pertinent is what it says there about evolution:

Quote:

Darwin's theory of evolution - the claim that primitive organisms have gradually developed over billions of years into the variety of species known to us today - is one of the greatest and cleverest myths ever devised by Satan and his earthly lackeys. Many Christians do not understand the significance of this theory. How important it is to adhere to Creationism rather than Darwinism. It is not merely something you can choose. It is not something that is merely indifferent in a Christian's life. If you adhere to Darwinism it completely undoes the central message of the Bible and props up the false heart of world religion. Many Christians fail to understand that.

and

Quote:

Darwinian evolution is at heart a religious movement. There is a close relationship between Darwinism and Gnosticism which many fail to comprehend. And in terms of the infiltration of Gnostic ideology into science, which had been initiated by the Rosicrucian enlightenment some two hundred and fifty years earlier, the Theory of Evolution represented the perfect fulfilment of a dream. The physicist and mathematics Professor of Oregon State University, Dr. Wolfgang Smith, expresses this superbly when he writes:

"As a scientific theory, Darwinism would have been jettisoned long ago. The point, however, is that the doctrine of evolution has swept the world, not on the strength of its scientific merits, but precisely in its capacity as a Gnostic myth. It affirms, in effect, that living beings create themselves, which is in essence a metaphysical claim... Thus, in the final analysis, evolutionism is in truth a metaphysical doctrine decked out in scientific garb. In other words, it is a scientistic myth. And the myth is Gnostic, because it implicitly denies the transcendent origin of being; for indeed, only after the living creature has been speculatively reduced to an aggregate of particles does Darwinist transformism become conceivable. Darwinism, therefore, continues the ancient Gnostic practice of depreciating "God, the Father Almighty, Creator of Heaven and earth". It perpetuates, if you will, the venerable Gnostic tradition of "Jehovah bashing". And while this in itself may gladden Gnostic hearts, one should not fail to observe that the doctrine plays a vital role in the economy of Neo-Gnostic thought, for only under the auspices of Darwinist "self-creation" does the Good News of "self-salvation" acquire a semblance of sense".

and

The YECs truly believe they are combatting Satan in opposing evolution. In their historical framework of viewing the world, evolution is a Satanic plan to undermine faith, preparing the world for the final judgement.

Roland98 · 07-18-2003, 09:33 AM

Quote:

evolution is a Satanic plan to undermine faith, preparing the world for the final judgement.

But isn't that exactly what they want? Aren't they all preparing to be "raptured?" So why would they work against it?

pescifish · 07-18-2003, 10:44 AM

To all:

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Quote:

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07-18-2003, 08:05 AM	#74
dangin Veteran Member Join Date: Dec 2000 Location: The Middle, Kansas Posts: 2,637	Re: Take off the Blinders Hey these are all my exgirlfriends. I thought I hid the bodies better than that but. . . Seriously, I don't think someone who argues a YEC worldview should complain that some of what he says is made to look, or is pointed out as absurd. How can you debate the absurd without pointing out the absurdity?

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07-18-2003, 04:47 AM	#71
wdog Veteran Member Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Ohio, USA Posts: 1,547	Dr GH, I am not surprised. again I don't give a damn what they want to believe, but I have also firsthand experienced the activism of this crowd which is the real danger and we should not underestimate them. in many areas of the US the electorate is probably more on their side and tactics like you describe is not going to help. It helps to debate science, even though we all know there really isn't a debate. The reality though is that this is more a political fight than anything for the minds of the average public. Creationists realize that better than the scientific community does and hence employ political tactics (some dirty). Sometimes I see scientists and infidels act as though all they have to do is simply show where creationism is wrong scientifically. If that were the case then YE creationism would have been dead long ago as anyone with half a brain can study it and understand.

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