Freethought & Rationalism Archive

diana · 05-16-2002, 06:32 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Talulah:
Some people derive a sort of security from their exclusive religious beliefs.

Religion takes a person, breaks them down into nothing by telling them that they are worthless sinners, then builds them back up by telling them they know how to save them. Religion and their self-esteem are inseperable. Their beliefs ARE their salvation, literally, not just in an eternal sense. They derive their sense of self worth from feeling saved, because without religion they are nothing.

Think of it as a socially sanctioned hate organization. They feel justified in their feelings of superiority because you could have believed, done right, accepted Christ.

As with many things you write, I couldn't have said it better myself.

But I may be a teensy bit biased.

Break them down and build them back up? Yes. Sounds like basic training, actually....

d

dennis/innomen · 05-16-2002, 07:26 AM

Ask a fundamentalist how many times did Christ speak of Hell. How many people did Christ condemn to Hell? Ask them who Christ said would go to Hell.

Ask them this, if Christ were on earth today (of course i understand that question is filled with problems to begin with for them) who would he be spending his time with? Ask them how would Christ treat an AIDS victim? Ask them how Christ would treat the homeless? Ask them how they treat these same people.

Jamie_L · 05-16-2002, 07:55 AM

I think a lot of Christians just don't think about it that hard. Much like everyone else in their religion.

Things they may tell themselves to help make them feel better:

1. God knows what he's doing. He loves everyone. He'll make sure everyone gets saved who deserves it.

2. Maybe the fundamentalists aren't completely right. Maybe all the deserving folks do get to go to heaven. Maybe on judgement day if you stand up and say "oh, my bad. I'm sorry," God will let you in the gates.

3. If I just get the government to make everyone pray in school, we'll all get to go to heaven.

Jamie

Dark Jedi · 05-16-2002, 09:50 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Talulah:
Some people derive a sort of security from their exclusive religious beliefs.

Religion takes a person, breaks them down into nothing by telling them that they are worthless sinners, then builds them back up by telling them they know how to save them. Religion and their self-esteem are inseperable. Their beliefs ARE their salvation, literally, not just in an eternal sense. They derive their sense of self worth from feeling saved, because without religion they are nothing.

Think of it as a socially sanctioned hate organization. They feel justified in their feelings of superiority because you could have believed, done right, accepted Christ.

Oddly enough, this is the same process used in Marine boot camp. Break them down, re-align their thinking process, then give them a goal to acheive and fell like they have accomplished something positive.

Dark Jedi · 05-16-2002, 09:53 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by diana:


As with many things you write, I couldn't have said it better myself.

But I may be a teensy bit biased.

Break them down and build them back up? Yes. Sounds like basic training, actually....

d

Hey, no taking my observations before I can make 'em!

I gotta remember to read the whole thread before replying.

Talulah · 05-16-2002, 10:03 AM

Right, and the military doesn't recruit babies still nursing like churches do.

beachbum · 05-16-2002, 10:12 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by 2xhelix:
To be honest, a lot of xians are selfish. They have received 'salvation' for themselves and it stops there.

At the same time, there are some xians that will really try hard to share the Gospel with others. So it really depends on what type of xian you are speaking of, the one who just cares about themselves, or ones that truely have a heart for the rest of the world.

And the bottom line to this is it really doesn't matter. As far as the xian is concerned he or she is going to heaven and the rest of the world is fucked.

sighhswolf · 05-17-2002, 03:04 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Dark Jedi:


Oddly enough, this is the same process used in Marine boot camp. Break them down, re-align their thinking process, then give them a goal to acheive and fell like they have accomplished something positive.

Odd that you would bring that up Jedi, I was thinking about Parris Island when I read that post.
Brainwashing is easy to accomplish, like you said
first tear them down, strip every once of self respect they have, show them they are nothing...
they know nothing.....they understand nothing...
and that they are undeserving of simple freedoms.
Then at the lowest point, give them the corp, and rebuild their self image as a marine not as a civilian.
The corp and those within the closed ranks become family and everyone has a responsibility to take care of their own.
The person is rebuilt psycologically to be a cog
in a well oiled machine, team play....and the identity they once had as a civilian is long forgotten.
Religious indoctrination has fine tuned the procedures above to a much higher level.

Wolf

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05-16-2002, 07:26 AM	#12
dennis/innomen Regular Member Join Date: Oct 2001 Location: Boston area Posts: 138	Ask a fundamentalist how many times did Christ speak of Hell. How many people did Christ condemn to Hell? Ask them who Christ said would go to Hell. Ask them this, if Christ were on earth today (of course i understand that question is filled with problems to begin with for them) who would he be spending his time with? Ask them how would Christ treat an AIDS victim? Ask them how Christ would treat the homeless? Ask them how they treat these same people.

05-16-2002, 07:55 AM	#13
Jamie_L Veteran Member Join Date: Oct 2001 Location: U.S. Posts: 2,565	I think a lot of Christians just don't think about it that hard. Much like everyone else in their religion. Things they may tell themselves to help make them feel better: 1. God knows what he's doing. He loves everyone. He'll make sure everyone gets saved who deserves it. 2. Maybe the fundamentalists aren't completely right. Maybe all the deserving folks do get to go to heaven. Maybe on judgement day if you stand up and say "oh, my bad. I'm sorry," God will let you in the gates. 3. If I just get the government to make everyone pray in school, we'll all get to go to heaven. Jamie

05-16-2002, 10:03 AM	#16
Talulah Senior Member Join Date: Feb 2002 Location: Beautiful Colorado Posts: 682	Right, and the military doesn't recruit babies still nursing like churches do.

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