Geoff Hudson

The correspondence between [Paul] {James} and Seneca probably escaped with less attention from editors because they were seen as less important, and were left unattended gathering dust. In no way can these letters be seen as Pseudo-Pauline.

I am sure there are one or two other documents that have survived without too much change. Tertullian's Apology seems to come faily close.

Geoff

Celsus

Sorry Geoff,

I don't care one way or another whether Paul's exchange with Seneca is forged or not. What I am trying to suggest is that the reasons you are using are not at all convincing, and it's beginning to look very much like special pleading.

Joel

Geoff Hudson

I see distinct links between the early "Christian" movement in Rome and the Roman imperial household. I see a mass exodus of early disciples (4000, to be precise, led by the "Egyptian" - the Rechabite James) from Jerusalem to Rome. This event occurred in Acts 1. Acts 1-12 is all in Italy. There was ample time for contact with members of the establishment in both Claudius' and Nero's households. Seneca would not have been able to resist the philosophy of the purifying Spirit of God. He would have loved the idea of his purified spirit winging its way up (rising) to God.

Geoff

Geoff Hudson

RENEWED DEBATE OVER ALLEGED LETTERS BETWEEN SENECA AND ST. PAUL

New Findings Could Support Letters' Authenticity
MILAN, OCT 14 (ZENIT).- "I like the letters you have written to the Galatians, the Corinthians and the Acheans. But, you must watch the style, lest in some way its brilliance fails to measure up to the sublimity of the thought."

Could it really be Seneca, the Stoic philosopher, who wrote these lines to St. Paul, in a benevolent attempt to simplify the Apostle's prose? There are manuscripts of letters that could have been exchanged between the Apostle and the pagan philosopher between 58-64 A.D, during Paul's stay in Rome, under house-arrest, while awaiting trial. These letters were known as early as the 4th century. St. Jerome quotes them for the first time. St. Augustine alludes to them but, until the present, this correspondence has been considered apocryphal.

Maria Grazia Mara, professor emeritus of the History of Christianity in the Roman University "La Sapienza," affirmed that "precisely around the 4th century, the forged letters reflected an ongoing debate: the need for Christians to improve their writing, so that the roughness of the Latin translations of the Scriptures would not be considered vulgar to educated pagans,".

Currently, in a congress entitled "Seneca and the Christians," organized by the Catholic University of Milan, experts are debating whether it is a simply a forgery created to stir controversy, or an authentic letter of Seneca to St. Paul.
Participants in the congress include those who believe in the authenticity of the letters -- at least 12 out of 14 --, who are offering with new arguments to support their claims.
"Research carried out by Ilaria Ramelli, one of my students, is inclining me toward belief in their authenticity," Marta Sordi, said. Sordi is professor of Ancient History at the Catholic University of Milan.

"Examination of the texts reveals that in the letters allegedly written by Paul, Greek sayings are more copious than in Seneca's letters," Sordi said. "For example, Paul says 'sophist' instead of 'sapiens'; and for 'incoherence' he uses the word 'aporia.' This is obviously true, given the fact that Paul spoke Greek, the universal language of the Mediterranean, and not Latin."
"As regards Seneca," Sordi continued, when he wishes to express "'fear of God,' he writes the word 'deorum' (of the gods). A Christian forger would never have used that expression but, instead, 'timor Dei' (fear of God)."

Other proposed proofs include "an inscription that was found in Ostia. It is the funerary dedication by someone called Marco Anneo Paulo to his own son, called Paulopetrus. Obviously, they were converts, if they called themselves by the names of the two first apostles. And they are members of Lucius Anneo Seneca's family, given that they have the same surname -- Anneo. Perhaps "libertos" (freed slaves) of Seneca. In any case, the inscription of Ostia -- the place where Paul was martyred --, confirms the presence of Christians, perhaps converted by Paul himself, among those who associated with Seneca."

But the new evidence doesn't end here. "In the fifth letter, the alleged Seneca writes to the alleged Paul, alluding with reservation to a certain 'lady' who was indignant with Paul 'because he has left the ancient worship and converted others.' The unidentified lady can only be Poppea, Nero's wife. We know that the empress was pro-Jewish, and her hostility toward Paul might have been suggested by the Jewish atmosphere surrounding her that tried to influence Nero himself. A dangerous hostility, and that is why Seneca only alludes to the lady but does not give her name."

"However, a 4th century forger would have no reason to be so reluctant," Sordi insisted. No doubt the two letters are false," Sordi admitted. The last one, in which Paul speaks to Seneca as though to a convert, and the twelfth, where the alleged Seneca writes about the fire in Rome ... although the date is wrong."
"In fact, St. Jerome, who believed in the authenticity of these letters, was unaware of this one, dated 64 (A.D.), Sordi explained.

When asked if history coincides with the letters, Maria Grazia Mara continues to disbelieve. "If Seneca was that close to the faith, as it seems from the letters, the first Christians would have 'exploited' his figure for propaganda ...," Mara said. And she does not see differences in social classes as an obstacle for people to get to know one another.

"They could very easily have known one another. There is no lack of examples of contacts between Christians of a very modest social level and converts belonging to the elite," Mara said.
Sordi added: "As evident in the Acts of the Apostles, Paul was very enterprising in making himself known at higher levels. In Ephesus, he befriended Exarchs, powerful dignitaries adept at the imperial cult. Cyprus' consul, a very wealthy industrialist, called him to hear him speak. And in Corinth, Paul met the consul of Acaya, Anneo Novato Gallione, who was Seneca's brother."
Arguments both for and against the authenticity of the letters continue to surface but, as one scholar suggested 'off the record' during a coffee break in the formal academic proceedings: "whether or not Paul and Seneca were friends during their lifetime, we'd like to think that they are now."
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