Jack the Bodiless

Yes, where I come from, virtually all private hospitals are "atheist".

In Europe, private hospitals tend to be run by secular corporations, not religious charities.

Radorth

Don't feel bad. You'd be an exception if you hadn't and a Christian as well.

Have you even read my posts here or are you intentionally overlooking the obvious? When Jesus returns, free will as we know it will end. Then God will accomplish all the things atheists have been whining about, by ending the free will of evildoers, which causes the majority of them. Obviously when Jesus returns he will put an end to other problems as well, as he promised.

Meanwhile we can enjoy freedom from most evil by submitting our will to God now.

Enjoy your grace period.

BTW if God (before you were born) asked you if you wanted to live on this earth, and warned you that you could be killed in an earthquake, disease or a tornado, you would refuse?

I don't think so, particularly if you knew there was an afterlife-in which case all this whining about God's imperfect world is hypocritical.

Rad

Radorth

Really? Give us the names of three and a link to their history and I will retract my statement. Also please give the names of the atheist charities whose members work(ed) in them by the thousands for nun's wages.

Ingersoll's promise that skeptics would build lot's of hospitals has gone unfulfilled as far as I know.

Most old American universities are run by "secular" people but they wouldn't exist sans the work and inspiration of hundred's of Christians.

Better late than never I suppose.

Rad

Jack the Bodiless

In the UK, most hospitals are state-built and state-funded.

The biggest private health company, the only one big enough to fund hospitals, is BUPA.

Religious charities run soup kitchens, shelters for the homeless, and perhaps a few ambulances. Not hospitals. Even hospices for the terminally ill tend to be run by secular charities.

I'm not sure what you mean by "atheist" charities. You think that it's desirable for charities to discriminate against religious people?

Jayjay

So how exactly are birth defects and diseases caused by the "free will of evildoers"? Oh yeah, some guy 6000 years ago took a bite at a fruit when God told him not to. That makes a lot of sense.

Too bad you have failed to explain why he hasn't done so already, if that's what he wants.

Yeah right. I'm just baffled why all christians have utterly failed in making any sense of their inconsistent, indecisive God. Why does the guy need a grace period? If he doesn't want "free will", then why allow it in the first place? If he does want it, then why end it? What's the purpose? How does just showing that he exists limit anyone's free will?

Ah, but now I am forgetting that I'm talking to brave sir Radorth, who hasn't managed to give an answer to any of these questions so far... just dodging and shifting the blame on atheists.

Ab_Normal

Here's how the hospitals shake out in my part of the world:

Empire Health Services - a not-for-profit which owns two hospitals and numerous clinics. I couldn't find a religious connection.

Holy Family Hospital "A Providence Sponored Ministry". I wouldn't take my dog to Holy Family - they left my dad with undiagnosed pneumonia which led to his having a huge hunk of lung removed.

Sacred Heart Medical Center fondly called "Shmuck" for its acronym. SHMC was built by the Providence Sisters in the late 19th century. When they purchased a medical office building, urologists offering vasectomies had to move out.

So that's two religious and two "secular" (for lack of a better word) hospitals.

Bill Snedden

In my little corner of the world, ALL of the health-care facilities are officially secular.

Our primary hospital is the Moses Cone health system, founded by the wife of a successful textile magnate as a memorial to her husband.

We used to have a Humana hospital as well, but it was "consumed" by Moses Cone several years ago as was our other secular hospital: Wesley Long.

To indirectly answer the OP, I can think of many things that would make me "fear" something in the conventional sense and I certainly am in constant awe of the universe. In fact, I think that the verse, "The fear of God is the beginning of wisdom" is one I can actually ascribe some meaning to myself, if interpreted liberally. There is majesty and wonder in the universe around us; giving in to the sense of awe that naturally produces can be a positive motivation in trying to learn more about it...

To directly answer the OP, I don't think that "fear", in the conventional sense, is a positive emotion and anything that God does that makes us fear him, in this sense, doesn't do diddly to bring us closer to him.

If I became convinced that the Christian God of the Bible actually existed, I'd weep bitter tears of despair and feckless rage. I think that would be the natural reaction of anyone who discovers that they are, after all, merely an impotent slave in a universe devoid of personal meaning.

On the other hand, if I were to become convinced that the "benevolent god of the philosophers" or a "kinder-gentler" Christian God existed, then I can't see that I'd have much problem feeling grateful to and possibly even loving such a being. What a great guy!

Regards,

Bill Snedden

winstonjen

But isn't your relationship with Jesus obsessive? Or is it OK because he's the exception?

Fiach

Originally posted by Radorth

Atheists typically call prostitution "victimless" (yawn) but like homosexuality, it is obsessive except in rare cases. Jack Nicholson spends lots of time with prostitutes apparently. Imagine- a person with his talent and choices stuck trying to find happiness with prostitutes but that is a rather typical end for the materialist.

Prostitution is certainly not victimless. Many of those abused women are "recruited" into it a children by criminals. Those who prefer prostitutes may be obsessed in some way. I don't know anything about Jack Nicholson. I know that Jimmy Swaggart, Assemblies of God Fundy Huckster, has been caught at least twice with prostitutes. It seem that other Assemblies ministers have also been into the same habit. Maybe Fundamentalist Christianity fosters sexual perversion, eh?

Maybe all of those blokes are perverted sickos. It should be noted the Catholic Church scandals of homosexual paedophilia. Our ex-President, Bill Clinton, fundamentalist Baptist, had sex in the White House with young girls. Yet you blame this on materialists. That is an unfounded libelous accusation. Atheists are by necessity materialists. Yet Atheists are UNDERREPRESENTED in prison populations of killers and rapists, while Fundamentalist/Baptists are vastly overrepresented in rape cases and muder. People who live in glass houses should not throw stones.

My own hypothesis as a neurologist and neuroscientist, is that sexual obsession seems to have a positive corelation to religiosity. The daily news reports of clerical scandals (Assemblies of God, Baptists, Catholic) supports that view. When did you last read that a famous molecular biologist, a famous geneticist, a famous quantum physicist, or famous palaeontologist was arrested for sex with a minor or rape?????

Fiach

Infidelettante

The point is not that there are no good people doing good things in the name of Jesus. The point is that Jesus is not here so they don't have to take up the slack. Can you not understand the difference? But he has a good excuse. Free will gets in the way and God is helpless in the face of free will as we all know. Who do you blame that on? And why do I even have to ask that question? He could feed the hungry with crumbs. He could heal the blind with spit. He could raise the stinking dead. He could control the weather. Tornado outside town? Not to worry, Jesus is on the job. Hurricane in the gulf? Jesus has the weather update at five... clear skies ahead! I'm not making fun here. You need to tell me how you still worship a God who came to Earth and could do all that and then left the world in pain and suffering. You need to tell me what makes your God better than the ladies who deliver meals to shut ins. Better than AIDS voluntiers. Better than kids who paint houses on summer vacation.

It comes down to one thing. He ain't here and this is where we need him to be. In plain language tell me why he left. None of this Pauline "it's a mystery" crap. If you can't come up with a better reason than free will you and your God aren't worth the energy it takes to put up with you.

JT