wildernesse

I believe that Paul probably did believe that Adam was a historical person--and believed that through his mistake, sin and death entered the world.

This chapter goes on to state that Adam is a type of person like the one who was to come--one person whose life choices imparts death and the ability to sin, one person whose life choices imparts life and the ability to be free from/forgiven of sin.

I don't have much of a problem seeing this as metaphorical language contrasting old lives with new lives--old man with new man, etc. I can draw parallels from this, even without literal belief in ancient creation stories. My .02.

--tibac

Marduk

I thought it went like this:
Jesus died to show us if you follow him you get to defeat death, rise again, get eternal life, etc.
Paul said "the wages of sin are death" Original Sin is not in the Bible, St. Augustine, or somone like him, pulled it out of his butt in the 4th century. There is no OS in Jewish tradition either, and they should know, being the ones who made this all up in the first place.

I don't think sin and original sin are the same thing. All religions have 'sins' not obeying God or doing something generally forbidden.

Luiseach

NMJ, your post sounds so weary!

Infidelettante

Your problem is that you aren't reading the Bible literally.
God told Adam and Eve not to eat from the Tree of the
Knowledge of Good and Evil. What is the knowledge of
good and evil. It's the abiltity to choose good or evil. Clear?
Those who can choose are "as gods" He says. So Mother
Eve looks at the fruit of the Tree of the Knowledge of Good
and Evil and reaches for it....STOP...Eve chose "evil" and did
it before she ever touched the friut! That was not the way
He had it planed. So then Mother Eve calls the man over and
says "take a bite of this Honey." And poor Adam looks at the
woman and what does he see? He sees her "as a god" and
sap that he is who was created to do nothing but what the
gods tell him to do does just what he was created to do and
eats the fruit! Now tell me where the sin is. Then God got His
brain wrapped around it and realized that the Tree of Life was
right there and if Eve could pull this off imagine what she could
do with that one. Thinking fast He kicked them out of the garden
and blocked it off with flaming swords which some archaeologist
is going to dig up any day now to just prove it all really
happened but at least Adam and Eve didn't wind up being gods
too because then things could really get weird.

So you see all you need to do is read the Bible literally and
it will never lead you astray.

JT

Bobzammel

Yeah--it's not really seen as sin, but as man becoming more powerful, threathening God and his entourage. God decides to prevent that. The theme is repeated in a sense with the Babel story. God is not angry that they sin--he sees them as a threat to him.
Interestingly, the case could be made that Jesus did sin. Sin, after all, is transgressing the Mosaic Law, and Jesus did this on several occassions, offering some excuses which are mainly misunderstandings of OT passages--as is most of the OT qoutations in the NT.

Rhea

So wait, are you saying that you believe there are millions of sinless souls in heaven, just like Jesus?

Every case of SIDS, every still birth, every child who dies of dysintery, malaria and aids before being able to talk, every person born without sufficient mental capacity to choose sin...

All of those millions of souls are just as good as Jesus?

I can see where you'd get that, it's what I'd go for, too, but it doesn't jive with the thoughts of any Christian I've ever met, that's why it surprised me, somewhat.

Do I have that right? Jesus was not unique in his sinlessness?

or...
Did all those souls sin after all? The babies, the severely retarded...

I'm confused on what you mean by your post...

notMichaelJackson

Yes, wary of all atheists who simply don't want God to exist; who do not wish to live forever and want all to fall with them.

winstonjen

I think you've got it mixed up. Atheists force nothing on anyone. They present the facts, and allow others to make up their own minds.

And BTW, 'weary' means tired, 'wary' means careful/cautious. I think you got those two words mixed up.

Asha'man

Where are you finding those? All the atheists I have met really want a just and loving god to exist, and would love to live forever. However, none of them had any reason to think that such a fantasy is true.

Stephen T-B

So why did God put a Tree of Knowledge in the Garden of Eden?