RogerLeeCooke

If the other atheists on this board are like me, they spend very little time thinking about gods. But they tend, like me, to be people who spend a lot of time thinking about everything, and gods get a share of attention along with politics, literature, music, and whatever else interests me. Why do you and Odemus assume we are "passionate"? That word is far too strong to describe my feelings about the matter. But if you lived in a world where everyone asserted that oranges are blue, you, like us, would spend a certain amount of time reflecting on this peculiarity of the people around you.

And, as others have said, people naturally love campfires and conversation. This board is a great one, for engaging in debates and sharing experiences. Why that must be denigrated as "obsession" by people of a different opinion is a mystery. I might be inclined to turn Odemus' question right back at him: Why does he care how much time we spend thinking about philosophical questions? What's it to him?

Echo

Just because someone puts himself in a position where he stands a high risk of being badgered by people with dissenting views, it does not mean that those doing the badgering aren't really badgering! Some atheists, I am not afraid to admit, will go into Christian rooms and pester and whine and gripe. I call that badgering, regardless of whether the Christians have willingly placed themselves in a position where they are likely to be badgered.

Sure.


Yep, that's what I think. Do I go around actively trying to persuade people to adopt my view? Nah, not really, although it is the view I hold. If you want to talk about it and discuss, I'll be happy to. That's the fun part..talking and discussing ideas.


I see. I find that interesting, and I might be inclined to ask you why you believe such a claim to be true. If you wanted to talk to me about it, I probably would not wonder for a second *why* you wanted to talk to me about it. It's something you believe to be true, and people generally like to talk about things they believe.

One last time: I'm still not understanding what you find confusing or problematic about this.

[ July 12, 2002: Message edited by: Echo ]</p>

Clutch

i would not say I care passionately about my disbelief. But I do have an active interest in the matter.

First, I find it generally curious to see others believing something that is not merely false, but as outlandishly superstitious as most mainstream religions. Since I hold that ceteris paribus it is better for people to believe defensible things than indefensible things, I engage them on the untenability of their theism.

But this is relatively minor for me. The more important motivation is straightforward self-defense. If Christians were satisfied simply to believe that looking at peeled bark makes goats have spotted kids, or that Jesus came back to life and flew away in the sky, well, I'd have very little occasion to even think of myself as an atheist. But those Christians like to vote, dontcha know. And so they like to try and make public life and public institutions into official branches of their religion.

Since the success of these endeavours would have large and negative effects on my freedoms and quality of life, and those of my family, it is particularly worthwhile for me to point out the dismal irrationality of Christianity.

Hope that helps.

Typhon

Oh my, our latest jack-in-the-box rabid theist thumper has me laughing out loud.

Look at 'em go! Like a wind up terrier...

Seriously though Odious, as I wipe the tears of laughter from my eyes, I'll make you a deal, provided we can both be granted the representative powers to speak collectively for all theists and atheists.

Pack up your moldering holy scriptures, roll up your obnoxious eye-sore churches, get the hell out of every political party, special interest group, secular board, and out of all our classrooms, never breath another word about your ridiculous, unsupportable fairy tale beliefs in public, step out of the way of progress, science, and the continuing exploration of the universe, quit telling people who they can and can not marry, get your wagging noses out of everyone else's sex lives, quit blocking early and frequent sex education and the free distribution of birth control, stop blowing up doctors and clinics who perform legal, safe abortions, recognize that women have a right over their own bodies, quit jabbering on about the "sinful" nature of everyone, and...

GET OFF MY BLOODY FRONT LAWN EVERY SECOND WENDSAY OF THE MONTH ASKING ME IF I'VE FOUND YOUR CHAP JESUS. If you ask me, you folks should keep a closer watch on the fool if he's that prone to wandering off and getting himself lost on a regular basis.

Now. Do all that, for every single member of every religion, and I'll not breath a word about how you're all a bunch of loons with too much time on your hands. Hell, it might even allow me time for a new hobby. What's everyone's opinion about raising orchids?

.T.

Samhain

WJ:

You've said this on multiple occasions, Walrus, and I grind my teeth every time I hear it. I'm also sure we've had our share of threads dedicated to this point as well, and while we seem to be able to reason with every other theist on this board that such is not a non-sensical point for atheists, you still seem to hold to this as if your life depended on it, no matter how ridiculous the statement itself might be. I'm beginning to wonder if you even truly know what non-sensical means considering you hold to this obvious innaccuracy with a death-grip. If you truly even understand the atheistic position (which I am entirely skeptical about), then you'd admit that the prejudices, misinformation and stereotypes that theists perpetuate, just here on II, on a daily basis, is enough reason in itself to make the argument of the (non)existence of god(s) a completely valid argument and realm of discussion for the atheist. Perhaps you should cease with your biased opinions and stick to the facts for once.

Odemus

Death is innevitable, I am ready for it.

Odemus

Very good observation.Since there is no God, morality and ethics can only be said to be a function of evolution.Consciousness, reason and the like are derived from a natural order.They hold no ultimate meaning beyond our hardwired instinct to mutate and evolve into more complex life forms.I can make all the declarative statements about right and wrong I like but in the end I am only trying to fulfill some preprogrammed biological imperative.

Without a universal standard what makes anything right or wrong?If truth and meaning is all derived from subjective experience, who can make a verifiable claim about the value of my experience?


Without God there is no such thing as a universally binding standard of morality.No matter what I declare to be right, you cannot prove it to be wrong because meaning is entirely subjective.

Odemus

Seriously though, what do you mean?

Samhain

Odemus:

Don't clutter this thread with your inaccurate statements, biases, misrepresentations or prejudices. A good many of us are completely dedicated to establishing tolerance amoung all religions, and your misrepresentation with hasty over-generalizations fly in the face of the facts. I don't think any of us will deny that there are some here who do happen to have a bone to pick with theists, a good many do, and rightfully so in most cases considering the amount of intolerance we face daily from christian ilk. Further, the reason you may portray us as having "an axe to grind" may be because of the general misinformation that so many come here and spew as if factual. It does happen to irritate some more than others, and thus, our work to establish tolerance is constantly interrupted by our duty to defend our own views from those who would ignorantly slander our position. It has nothing to do with us, but the intolerance of theists that gives those at II an axe to grind.

Zippy

It doesn't. I don't recall anyone saying that it does.

Paul