Freethought & Rationalism Archive

Coragyps · 10-28-2002, 08:53 AM

Quote:

What here may be construed as a mutation?

Hmmm. You quoted where I said " Note, though, that the DNA codon in hemoglobin A is GAA, that for HbC is AAA, and that for HbS is GUA" but don't see the mutation? The last biology course I took was in 1968, and the mutation was sorta obvious to me. Perhaps, VZ, you really, really, truly need to read a recent high-school biology text before you hang around this forum any more.

As to "beneficial mutations," I could add the lactose tolerance of adults of Northern European descent - lactose intolerance and therefore inability to digest milk is the more common situation of adults worldwide.

Vibr8gKiwi · 10-28-2002, 09:59 AM

Don't rip on Van too much. It will take time for him to discover the evidence doesn't support his emotionally held religious positions. Those of us who used to be Christian know how it goes. I think the more intelligent ones have a tougher time because they can argue themselves in circles to avoid facing that they hold 2000-year-old myth as fact.

It's tough to find out your mother taught you incorrect things when you were a kid. But that's life (well, my life anyway).

picklepuss · 10-28-2002, 12:50 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Xixax:
[QB]

No, more like the car develops a 6' ground clearance and drives over the wreck with no problem.

Ah, so you still believe in magic and miracles.

Jimmy Higgins · 10-28-2002, 01:13 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Vanderzyden:
NOTE: Please don't bother to reply if you do not have substantial references (web or otherwise) to support your answer.

Thanks!

John[/QB]

Another hit and run posting.

Most information that is true, isn't readily available on the web! It has to be read from a journal or a real book, that isn't just sold off the shelves in the local Barnes and Nobles. Creationists think they have such an advantage because they have so many webpages in their favor. From biology to biblical scholarship, the best information must be studied and isn't available on the internet. I don't know whether they understand that.

Creationists that only post links to other websites or whose knowledge on a subject is limited to ICR and AIG should be refered to as e-Creationists.

RufusAtticus · 10-28-2002, 03:53 PM

Vander, I've provided you with the information you ask for; I hope come back to this thread.

Vanderzyden · 10-28-2002, 04:42 PM

Rufus,

No worries, I'll be back. But it may be a few days.

John

Daggah · 10-29-2002, 03:32 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Vanderzyden:
Rufus,

No worries, I'll be back. But it may be a few days.

John

I don't understand...it doesn't take you THAT long to post evasive, weasel-like responses. It wouldn't take ME that long...well, maybe it would. That kind of dishonesty doesn't come as naturally for me as it does for you.

Oolon Colluphid · 10-29-2002, 05:34 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Vanderzyden:
Can anyone provide conclusive evidence on just one beneficial genetic mutation.

[snip]

NOTE: Please don't bother to reply if you do not have substantial references (web or otherwise) to support your answer.

Okay then John.

Found on PubMed:

The nylon oligomer biodegradation system of Flavobacterium and Pseudomonas

Negoro S, Kato K, Fujiyama K, Okada H

Biodegradation 1994 Dec 5 (3-4):185-94

Abstract:

Quote:

This review article is a compendium of the available information on the degradation of a man-made compound, 6-aminohexanoate-oligomer, in Flavobacterium and Pseudomonas strains, and discusses the molecular basis for adaptation of microorganisms toward these xenobiotic compounds. Three plasmid-encoded enzymes, 6-aminohexanoate-cyclic-dimer hydrolase (EI), 6-aminohexanoate-dimer hydrolase (EII), and endo-type 6-aminohexanoate-oligomer hydrolase (EIII) are responsible for the degradation of the oligomers. Two repeated sequences, designated RS-I and RS-II, are found on plasmid pOAD2, which is involved in 6-aminohexanoate degradation in Flavobacterium. RS-I appears 5 times on the pOAD2, and all copies have the same sequences as insertion sequence IS6100. RS-II appears twice on the plasmid. RS-IIA contains the gene encoding EII, while RS-IIB contains the gene for the analogous EII' protein. Both EII and EII' are polypeptides of 392 amino acids, which differ by 46 amino acid residues. The specific activity of the EII enzyme is 200-fold higher than that of EII'. Construction of various hybrid genes demonstrated that only the combination of two amino acid residues in the EII' enzyme can enhance the activity of the EII' to the same level as that of EII enzyme.

(My emphases)

Emergence of nylon oligomer degradation enzymes in Pseudomonas aeruginosa PAO through experimental evolution

Prijambada ID, Negoro S, Yomo T, Urabe I

Appl Environ Microbiol 1995 May;61(5):2020-2

Abstract:

Quote:

Through selective cultivation with 6-aminohexanoate linear dimer, a by-product of nylon-6 manufacture, as the sole source of carbon and nitrogen, Pseudomonas aeruginosa PAO, which initially has no enzyme activity to degrade this xenobiotic compound, was successfully expanded in its metabolic ability. Two new enzyme activities, 6-aminohexanoate cyclic dimer hydrolase and 6-aminohexanoate dimer hydrolase, were detected in the adapted strains. (My emphases)

The full article (pdf) is <a href="http://aem.asm.org/cgi/reprint/61/5/2020.pdf" target="_blank">available here</a>.

Nylon is a man-made compound. It is not found in nature. And organisms that to start with cannot digest it have been observed to change, down their lineage, so that they can. That is, they can make use of it. Therefore the mutations which let them do this are beneficial to them.

See also <a href="http://www.nmsr.org/nylon.htm" target="_blank">this previously offered link</a>.

Questions?

TTFN, Oolon

Xixax · 10-29-2002, 05:46 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by picklepuss:


Ah, so you still believe in magic and miracles.

Let me make sure I understand your position ( as it would seem to be the same as Vans ):

There are no beneficial mutations?

Sheep in the big city · 10-29-2002, 06:27 AM

Hey Vanderzyden,
go to Celera and let them give you the human genome. Every single base in there is a fucking mutation.
But then again if the endproduct is a Vanderzyden the beneficiousness (as the president would put it) is debatable

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10-28-2002, 09:59 AM	#22
Vibr8gKiwi Senior Member Join Date: Jul 2000 Location: CA, USA Posts: 543	Don't rip on Van too much. It will take time for him to discover the evidence doesn't support his emotionally held religious positions. Those of us who used to be Christian know how it goes. I think the more intelligent ones have a tougher time because they can argue themselves in circles to avoid facing that they hold 2000-year-old myth as fact. It's tough to find out your mother taught you incorrect things when you were a kid. But that's life (well, my life anyway).

10-28-2002, 03:53 PM	#25
RufusAtticus Veteran Member Join Date: Nov 2001 Location: NCSU Posts: 5,853	Vander, I've provided you with the information you ask for; I hope come back to this thread.

10-28-2002, 04:42 PM	#26
Vanderzyden Senior Member Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: California Posts: 694	Rufus, No worries, I'll be back. But it may be a few days. John

10-29-2002, 06:27 AM	#30
Sheep in the big city Regular Member Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: CA Posts: 217	Hey Vanderzyden, go to Celera and let them give you the human genome. Every single base in there is a fucking mutation. But then again if the endproduct is a Vanderzyden the beneficiousness (as the president would put it) is debatable

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