Freethought & Rationalism Archive

Aerik Von · 02-17-2003, 07:42 AM

You should have seen some of the morons infesting my 8:30am religion and culture and class.

UG.

Radorth · 02-17-2003, 09:42 AM

You shouldn't call JM'ers morons.

Rad

Javaman · 02-17-2003, 10:54 AM

Has there been a thread about Fenton Mulley's question (I don't want to derail this thread any more than it has been)? I'm curious about the answer(s).

Also, I'm looking throught the thread and I'm not sure that Old Man has been "maligned". If he has, and I did it, I apologize.

beyelzu · 02-17-2003, 11:00 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Old Man
I too hold that early Genesis is not a compendium of science, but does contain truth when interpreted correctly, which is not the creationist interpretation. Although the creationist interpretation may be construed as a "myth", that interpretation is not necessarily, or even probably, the correct interpretation, and so early Genesis is largely irrelevant to the debate (from my angle).

Well as long as xians get to change what the bible means every few hundred years, the fairy tales in it will never be wrong now will they?

beyelzu · 02-17-2003, 11:09 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Old Man
My point was that fear can be promulgated as the basis of the infidel position as much, if not more so, that the basis of the monotheist position. All humans are subject to fear, and infidels as much so. The manifestation of fear is often in:
- Ridiculing of opponents (ridicule as the argument of last resort, rather than contradiction by rational argument - because you are afraid that you may not possess the better argument),
- Political tyranny (the fear of other men),
- Accumulation of vast amounts of wealth (the fear of insecurity).

For every monotheist for whom you site fear as being the source of his monthesism, I could site an infidel (or two) for whom fear is the source of his materialism.

The fear of the existence of a monotheist God can usually be the reason for ridicule of opponents.

I use ridicule when someone says something that I think is stupid, so my use of ridicule is more fear of stupid arguments.

As I live in a xian society, I must be imune to political tyranny, or I wouldnt be an out of the closet atheist now would I?

I dont understand how my or anyone's atheism is based on fear of other people's wealth.

Javaman · 02-17-2003, 11:10 AM

and... trying to be on-topic, I don't hold that religious people are necessarily moronic. I have found that the intelligent people that I know that are religious have not read closely the book(s) that make up the basis of their belief structure. I don't know if there's a term for this type of person or not. They are the, "Sure, I'm a Christian but I don't really think about it much and I don't go to church." None of this is hard and fast, though.

One of my co-workers is a hard-core fundementalist but she is very bright. She constantly reads the bible but she is an exceptional rationist. For example, we had a discussion about the one sin that cannot be forgiven (blaspheming the Holy Ghost) and she said that it only applied to what you held in your heart. So that you could go around saying "The Holy Ghost sucks ass" but, unless you really meant it in your soul, it didn't count and you'd still be saveable.

This also begs the question, "What is intelligent?" I (and probably all of you) have met people that are good at some things and not at others. My job in particular is difficult but I've know some extraordinarily smart people that couldn't do it. Contrarily, they could do a great many things that I could never hope to.

Then again, I've known some really stupid people. If I had to make a stand (and I'm not sure that I am) I would say that it is easier to convince a slower person about any belief system than one who is bright and wants to logically look through different religions.

Even discounting brains, I doubt very much that if you took a person in their mid-twenties, say, and locked them in a room for a year with the Christian bible, the Koran, and all other books from the major religions, that they'd come out a Christian.

BTW, I'm very good at some things but keeping a coherent train of thought for a long post is just not one of them. I'm not entirely sure what I just typed.

Aerik Von · 02-17-2003, 12:03 PM

Seriously though, I was joking. I tend to make a joke of everything in the end. Nothing is worth getting too excited about, especially idiotic fundies.

Aerik Von · 02-17-2003, 12:14 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Beyelzu
I use ridicule when someone says something that I think is stupid, so my use of ridicule is more fear of stupid arguments.

As I live in a xian society, I must be imune to political tyranny, or I wouldnt be an out of the closet atheist now would I?

I dont understand how my or anyone's atheism is based on fear of other people's wealth.

It tends to be the idea that atheists tend to be less reactionary and are seen as "afraid" or "timid". Seriously, atheism seems for the MOST part to be about maturity as much as it is about lacking belief.

I know as a young'un of 23 I still act like an idiot on this board sometimes - but I never react like some of the people who slap on. Their belief seems to drive them to conclusions based on childish frustration. Hence the one above.

They are more paranoid than normals would rather they believe. I am typically scared of some of the people who attempt to correct my proffessors in college.

Paddy · 02-17-2003, 05:00 PM

I thought this thread had fallen to the abyss of obscurity long ago, so I'm not exactly current. However, a lot of people tend to be looking at the thread title (and not very attentatively I might add; I put the question mark at the end for a reason) and not the content of the OP.

It is the fact that many christian 'thinkers' apply such logic and scrutiny to other major religions, and find them absurd (perhaps to reinforce their own belifs, I don't know), and yet cling to their own religion despite the proliferation of inconsistencies inherent in their belief.
It seems as though they are able to repress any cognitions that may contradict their beliefs, and to continue in ignorance. The fact that many are ardent skeptics towards other religions, and consider them to be patently absurd, yet cling to their own beliefs in spite of similar flaws I find hypocritical or laughable. . .I haven't decided yet (that's right Amie, I am the arbiter of who is hypocritical, laughable, ignorant, or moronic [just thought I'd add that so to save you the hassle of posting

])

Paddy

Amie · 02-17-2003, 08:57 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Paddy
that's right Amie, I am the arbiter of who is hypocritical, laughable, ignorant, or moronic [just thought I'd add that so to save you the hassle of posting

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02-17-2003, 07:42 AM	#71
Aerik Von Regular Member Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: Hell, New York Posts: 151	You should have seen some of the morons infesting my 8:30am religion and culture and class. UG.

02-17-2003, 09:42 AM	#72
Radorth Veteran Member Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: Los Angeles Posts: 1,872	You shouldn't call JM'ers morons. Rad

02-17-2003, 10:54 AM	#73
Javaman Veteran Member Join Date: May 2002 Location: Nebraska Posts: 1,708	Has there been a thread about Fenton Mulley's question (I don't want to derail this thread any more than it has been)? I'm curious about the answer(s). Also, I'm looking throught the thread and I'm not sure that Old Man has been "maligned". If he has, and I did it, I apologize.

02-17-2003, 11:10 AM	#76
Javaman Veteran Member Join Date: May 2002 Location: Nebraska Posts: 1,708	and... trying to be on-topic, I don't hold that religious people are necessarily moronic. I have found that the intelligent people that I know that are religious have not read closely the book(s) that make up the basis of their belief structure. I don't know if there's a term for this type of person or not. They are the, "Sure, I'm a Christian but I don't really think about it much and I don't go to church." None of this is hard and fast, though. One of my co-workers is a hard-core fundementalist but she is very bright. She constantly reads the bible but she is an exceptional rationist. For example, we had a discussion about the one sin that cannot be forgiven (blaspheming the Holy Ghost) and she said that it only applied to what you held in your heart. So that you could go around saying "The Holy Ghost sucks ass" but, unless you really meant it in your soul, it didn't count and you'd still be saveable. This also begs the question, "What is intelligent?" I (and probably all of you) have met people that are good at some things and not at others. My job in particular is difficult but I've know some extraordinarily smart people that couldn't do it. Contrarily, they could do a great many things that I could never hope to. Then again, I've known some really stupid people. If I had to make a stand (and I'm not sure that I am) I would say that it is easier to convince a slower person about any belief system than one who is bright and wants to logically look through different religions. Even discounting brains, I doubt very much that if you took a person in their mid-twenties, say, and locked them in a room for a year with the Christian bible, the Koran, and all other books from the major religions, that they'd come out a Christian. BTW, I'm very good at some things but keeping a coherent train of thought for a long post is just not one of them. I'm not entirely sure what I just typed.

02-17-2003, 12:03 PM	#77
Aerik Von Regular Member Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: Hell, New York Posts: 151	Seriously though, I was joking. I tend to make a joke of everything in the end. Nothing is worth getting too excited about, especially idiotic fundies.

02-17-2003, 05:00 PM	#79
Paddy Junior Member Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: Sydney, Australia Posts: 47	I thought this thread had fallen to the abyss of obscurity long ago, so I'm not exactly current. However, a lot of people tend to be looking at the thread title (and not very attentatively I might add; I put the question mark at the end for a reason) and not the content of the OP. It is the fact that many christian 'thinkers' apply such logic and scrutiny to other major religions, and find them absurd (perhaps to reinforce their own belifs, I don't know), and yet cling to their own religion despite the proliferation of inconsistencies inherent in their belief. It seems as though they are able to repress any cognitions that may contradict their beliefs, and to continue in ignorance. The fact that many are ardent skeptics towards other religions, and consider them to be patently absurd, yet cling to their own beliefs in spite of similar flaws I find hypocritical or laughable. . .I haven't decided yet (that's right Amie, I am the arbiter of who is hypocritical, laughable, ignorant, or moronic [just thought I'd add that so to save you the hassle of posting ]) Paddy

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