brighid

Lets be sure to understand that this is 66% of Americans POLLED - not 66% of Americans. There is an ENORMOUS difference. IF that was an accurate # there are still plenty of Americans that DO NOT support this war. Let's not forget about the voices of dissent that are being squashed. No doubt some were temporarily swayed by the speech the Pres made to the nation last night.

Brighid

fonzarelli

You missed my point. Its about being proactive not reactive. There are reasons we have been at war with Iraq twice. The Baath regime is one of the bad apples in the world.

Agreed. People in the international community do not do things without some selfish agenda behind it. That doesn't mean that it isn't the right thing to do.

France, Germany and Russia all have financial interests in the middle east. This is one of the main reasons they oppose this war. They do not want to lose money they have invested in the region. To think that France, Germany, Russia, etc are opposing this war for non-selfish reasons is ludicrous.

What about the weapons and chemicals that haven't been found. If the US intelligence is correct, Iraq has been moving illegal weapons around and hiding weapons/equipment/etc from the weapons inspectors. Remember the inspectors have only just been allowed access to Iraq. Since they were kicked out several years ago, do you really, honestly believe Saddam has been a good little boy and not developed these weapons again? Remember that the US and UK armed Iraq after the trouble with Iran. We know they have some outstanding weapons, declared or not.

On the contrary, I believe the fact that the Iraqi government has chosen to not comply with every single UN resolution passed and handed to them over the last 10 years is reason enough. They have gotten away with it so far, it is not right to let them get away with it any more... what is the point in resolutions if Iraq ignores them. There is no peaceful resolution to this unless Saddam stands down and a person with reason takes his place. This isnt going to happen considering the only 2 options at the Iraqi poll booths are

1) Baath party
2) Death/Imprisonment

That statement is a little irrisponsible don't you think? The UK and the US both have a huge arsenal of WMD but we aren't posing any unprovoked threat on any nation in the world (although this will be argued by people with an anti-war stance).. that doesn't mean we should attack ourselves.

I am only pro war right now because of the situation that has built up. I agree with Claire Short that the situation with Palastine should have been dealt with first... After all, the whole reason 9/11 came about is because of this. Claire Short also rightly said that the UK involvement in this is to bring the US in to line with the International community and to tackle these 'axis of evil' nations with the backing of the International community and not go it alone. People are saying that the UK/Blair is the US/Bush's puppet. It may seem that way, but if someone didn't try and make that connection between the US/Bush and the rest of the world, the US would be the most dangerous nation on the planet and the we would be in a far worse state of affairs than we are right now.

thefugitivesaint

Atticus_Finch, you do realize that the so-called "polls" never acknowledge who they talked to, where the inquiries were made, how many people actually responded in detail, how the question was worded (in order to control the answers given), etc.

No one i've met or know supports the Bush administration. At work today i was interrupted several times by customers who responded that they do not support Saddam but they do not feel that the US should be going to war with him. I've looked far and wide and i haven't found a single person who even likes this administration. Most of the people i have talked to today were saddened by the speech last night, sickened at its disregard for the worlds opinion and at the fact that Bush contradicted his own intelligence agencies (the FBI, CIA) whose investigations showed no link between Iraq and Al Qaeda (one of my customers, a businessman in a suit no less was incised at the blatant contradiction and went to great lengths to insure everyone within earshot would know).

Screw the polls. If the popular vote couldn't keep this asshole out of office then i am damn sure that the opinion of the American public means very little either way.

I think Canadian citizenship sounds mighty nice.
-theSaint

Amen-Moses

Anyone who was swayed by that speech should be immediately locked up for their own safety!

Amen-Moses

Atticus_Finch

For thefugitivesaint, look here for the poll methodology, numbers and questions. This is the weekend poll, not the overnight, which showed 64% support.

First, I don't think any leader should make decisions based on polls. However, you seem to think that Bush should listen to the 30 something percent opposed rather that the 60+ percent in favor.

Second, "voices of dissent that are being squashed"? Please. Martin Sheen and others have gotten their message out all over the place. What is your example of voices of dissent being squashed. If the all powerful Bush police state were going to squash dissent they would start right here.

Regards,

Finch

Soul Invictus

I concur. I seriously question those polls. I have yet to find a considerable Bush following regarding Iraq, even from those I know who voted for him. Nice analogy with the public opinion polls and the popular vote. Vintage!

brighid

Atticus,

I didn't say anything about the "all powerful Bush police" so I am not sure what you are referring to.

But the boycotts, threats, pressure and even the previous statements by such people as John Ashcroft calling any person dissenting from the uberpatriot position as supporting terrorism is just a drop in the bucket. How about the vandalism and the bigotry against the French? How about the man arrested for wearing a "Peace" shirt in a mall because his shirt "distrupted" the patrons? And there is more but I do not have the time to get into it all right now. I consider all that to be realistic attempts at squashing dissent.

As far as the poll goes - whatever! I didn't get polled. I know not a single person in my INTERNATIONAL organization that has been polled. But then again, I don't talk to all of them ... but considering the work we do I DOUBT any pollster will be calling us asking our opinion about the war. It's pretty ubiquitous here - anti-war.

There is a much stronger anti-war movement and there is a large contingent of people who "support" the war, but do so very tenuously. The scales can easily tip in the other direction.

It seems our administration has forgotten one of the corner stones of our nation - protecting the interests of the minority against the will of the majority.

Although I support our troops 100% ... this administration doesn't not have an ounce of my support.

Furthermore, I don't give a shit if 66% of Americans polled support this war. 66% of Americans support alot of stupid shit. I consider it an honor to among the minority.

Brighid

Grumpy

I wonder if Bush is learning lessons from, say, Osama bin Laden.

"Do what I say or we'll blow you up good!"

Have Palestinian terrorists tried giving Sharon a 48-hour deadline?

LeftCoast

Gives a whole new meaning to "the Group W bench".....

For those who do not recognize it, the original quote is from the Arlo Guthrie song from the soundtrack to the movie "Alice's Restaurant" - A copy of the lyrics are here.

Purple Smartie

Yep, Canadian citizenship has its perks. The only thing wrong with Canada is that we're too damn close to America. At least our PM is willing to listen to us and stand up to Mr Bush.

I don't think anyone, anywhere, is really surprised that he is only interested in his own personal agenda. We all knew from the day he came into office that he doesn't understand the meaning of the words "majority" or "vote". That's sorta how he came to be in power in the first place, isn't it?