fatherphil

no, characterizing yourself as a "freethinker" as opposed to a theistic thinker attaches some sort of negative connotation on the religious mindset.
additionally have the need to "declare" there is no God seems a bit preachy. the darwin fish is just as odious to the Christian as the Jesus fish may be to the atheist. perhaps moreso since it is a clear defacing of a religious symbol.

Conchobar

I just would like to have you see the balance in America from my side, the Atheist minority. You are part of the 85% Christian majority. Your people elect every modern president since Madison. You have the vice-presidency, all of congress except for a couple of Jews, and the Supreme Court except for one Jew?

You have all of the state governors, and control all of the state legislators. The media, radio and TV, are filled with Christian theme shows and talk shows. Preachers are on several stations of the AM dial, and have one full time Christian TV channel, TBN.

You control the Boy Scouts of America which my son could not join because he is an Atheist like me, his Atheistic war veteran. If I were a Christian American veteran (actually I am a British Royal Army veteran) and not an Atheist my son would be eligible and I would be eligible for the American Veterans of Foreign Wars. Despite my years active war time duty Army career, I woulld still second class in America because I am an unbeliever in their gods.

Every highway has God or Jesus on some sign or another. I realise some of it is a natural response to 9-11 with "God Bless" campaigns.

American Atheists have Christianity "in their faces" throughout all their culture. I hear that a lot of "Atheists cannot be moral without belief in God." George Bush Sr. "Atheists cannot be considered citizens or even patriots." (This was paraphrased from a 1988 campaign speech). Televangelists, Falwell and Robertson, with millions of listeners blamed 9-11 on us, not the devout RELIGIOUS fanatics who actually did it.

Atheists/agnostics are 8-10% of the general American population and 10% of your US troops in WWII, and Vietnam. Probably it is the same % now fighting for America in Iraq. But Atheists are only 0.2% of the incarcerated prison population of criminals.

Why are Atheists so HATED? Why are we a threat? Why is it OK to proselytise Jesus, his divinity, his second return, defend the Bible, "God bless" everything, and "Jesus loves you?"

But if one of us states our reason for non-belief, it is regarded as wrong. If we debate our analysis of the Bible, it is regarded as an attack. Some Christians actually think that in spite of iron-clad control of the National and State governments, most organisations, and a huge popular majority; that a 10% largely academic science nerd, largely unarmed minority who are among the least likely to commit crime, are persecuting this powerful and armed Christian Majority.

Is it that our very existence is perceived as an affront to their need for uniformity of belief? Perhaps we cause them to THINK, and that frightens them. I post this only to let you see my side of your de facto Christian culture and Christian governmental policies.

My wish is that we could put aside prejudice. Americans (well some) have gotten by anti-Catholicism, Anti-Semitism, partly past racism, partly past anti-gay bigotry, but Atheists remain the only widely hated minority. 49% of Americans hate us or have very negative views of us. Subtracting their 10% Atheists from the remaining 51% leaves only 41% who don’t hate us. That means more than half of Christians hate or dislike Atheists for our rejecting religious belief.

Despite our secular republic and Bill of Rights, and 10% unbelievers, the US is the most Christian country in the world after Vatican City.

You guys have won back in the early-1800s. You re-established religion in spite of the Bill of Rights. You just need to accept your victory and not fear an outnumbered defeated minority of mostly unarmed atheists. How can that small and cowed minority afraid to admit their disbelief, threaten your mob power?

Conchobar

The Naked Mage

I never said I thought you didn't hate it.


I haven't made mention of which direction I think it all goes, actually; only that, when most of the theists on this board attempt to "undermine" the beliefs of the unbelievers, they show all the ingenuity of five-year-olds, relying heavily on strawman arguments, martyr complexes, and total logical disconnects. I didn't use the word "degenerating" on a mere whim.


Probably not from lack of trying on the Christians' part, though.


I haven't called you names or attacked you personally for as long as I can remember, if ever. Could I at least have the pleasure of committing the crime BEFORE being put on trial?


Whatever.

Badfish

Conchobar,

I am a Christian and do not hate atheists, that is not really a good generalization, those televangelists and leaders that masquerade behind the cloak of Christianity do not necessarily represent all of Christs people. I realize Christians can be judgemental and monopolizing, but don't count out all the Christians that are persecuted more than atheists by so called religious leaders, you would be surprised.

beth

No, not the case. I used the term "free thought" because it is te term often used in this board. I don't use this term in life. I do not try to push my thoughts on anyone else, either. In fact, I usually listen to their beliefs and say nothing of mine. They get upset at the mere fact that I am an atheist and do not believe, even though I listen with the utmost respect.

beth

Honestly, the only atheist I knew was an idiot. He got drunk all the time and was quite the idiot, but if you caught him sober, you could see glimpses of intelligence. I knew some very wealthy people who were atheists. The husband played on my husband's baseball team. They were very nice and I liked them alot. The only way I found out he was an atheist is my husband told me one night about religious discussions we had.
My sister's friends were atheists(she's agnostic/deist, I think), they were weird anti-social and druggy types and very into the goth scene.

I knew a few very polite atheists on the web board, but most of the atheists I knew through the old POD board were jerks, so I figured that a lot of atheists were alsio jerks. I was never threatened by an atheist. I understood their disbelief and figured that if not for the grace of god, I would also be an unbeliever. But I was also the type of Christian who allowed my children to read Harry Potter and watch Sabrina. I was always a person that tried to look at the individual and make beliefs a secondary thing.

beth

Sabine, thank you for your input. You made some valid points. It's hotter wher I am than where you are. I live further inland....

Starboy

fatherphil, please explain to my why most Chrisitians think they are still living in the first century.

Starboy

wildernesse

Speak for yourself, fatherphil. The Darwin fish (and the other variants of the "Jesus" fish) are quite funny to me--creativity almost always is. I don't find it odious or offensive--neither do I find the "Jesus" fish to be a religious symbol in need of respect.

--tibac

wildernesse

Conchobar :

I find your statistics very interesting, could you link me to your sources? Thanks.

--tibac