Freethought & Rationalism Archive

Corgan Sow · 01-29-2003, 11:28 PM

Robert Green Ingersol - The Ghost (essay)
Dan Barker - Losing Faith in Faith
Nietzche - Thus Spake Zaratrustra

Secular Pinoy · 01-30-2003, 03:15 AM

Why I am Agnostic by Robert Ingersoll = Tipped my beliefs from liberal xian to nontheist.
Pride and Prejudice by Jane Austen = Made me appreciate classical english literature.
Why People Believe Weird Things by Michael Shermer = Made me realize that I should be on-guard against irrational beliefs, yet be respectful of other people's beliefs.
Any collected-essays book by SJ Gould = Made me appreciative of the complexity of life and history.
Animal Farm by George Orwell = Shows that religious ideology can lead to fundamentalism and oppression.

Rousseau_CHN · 01-30-2003, 03:29 AM

The Myth of Sysiphus by Albert Camus. I was suicidal back then; but after reading that essay, I couldn't even bring myself to think about suicide ever again.

Eudaimonist · 01-30-2003, 01:08 PM

Just about anything, fiction or nonfiction, by Ayn Rand. (My fav is The Fountainhead.)

Some works by people strongly influenced by Ayn Rand's ideas, such as Chris Sciabarra's Total Freedom, and David Kelley's A Life of One's Own.

Some neo-Aristotelian defenses of classical liberalism, such as Rasmussen and Den Uyl's Liberty and Nature and Liberalism Defended.

Aristotle's own Nicomachean Ethics.

Some anarchocapitalist books, such as David Friedman's Machinery of Freedom, although I'm no longer an anarchocaptialist aside from the "let's have ambitious volunteers experiment with it on Mars and see what happens" variety.

Some libertarian books, such as Virginia Postrel's The Future and its Enemies.

Some economics books, such as Henry Hazlitt's Economics in One Lesson.

And George Smith's Atheism: The Case Against God and Atheism, Ayn Rand, and Other Heresies.

Oh, and how could I forget Martin Cowen's The Fellowship of Reason.

(I think that's enough to mention.)

August Spies · 01-30-2003, 01:49 PM

Eudaimonist: wow and id pust most of those on stupidest books ive read or books I hate lists.

c'est la vie

thefugitivesaint · 01-30-2003, 02:24 PM

August:

You'd be surprised as to what helps shape the personal outlook of people. Although i agree that Tolkien (as much as i love his books being the 1st books i ever tried to read on my own as a child) may not be a prime influence on most thinking peoples list.

My concepts of power, society, technology, hierarchy and authoritarian structures was greatly altered by my love of cyberpunk. The concept that power is both detrimental and beneficial according to who possess it and how it is used, that it exists in hundreds of different centralized locations and that no one part of the structure can be changed which will affect all other centers of power (very foucaultian now that i think of it) were all concepts i gleemed from cyberpunk.

Fiction can be a beautiful way of expressing things that cannot but come off stale and uninteresting when conveyed in academic terminology. The plight of the lives of many people around the world have been shared with me in the form of fiction and i have found that these personal narratives have stayed with me longer due to their emotional appeal. Take
In the Time of the Butterflies by julia alvarez for a perfect example. I have no idea how i would have dealt with living under the shadow of a dictator who knew my name and had a personal stake in seeing me dead. To read this bit of "fictional history" is moving in a way that a more politically oriented book could not attempt. It's one thing to study the details of any given event and another to live it and then share this experience with the world.

I'll list my most influential books when i have the chance.
-theSaint

August Spies · 01-30-2003, 02:40 PM

hey TFS,

I never said fiction can't influence your beliefs. In fact I said the opposite myself, and put 1984 on my list. Hmm... I probably should put Invisible Man - Ellison for chaning how I think about race.

I was just surprised someone could claim the Hobbit changed their views of anything.

Ill check out that book you suggest. peace

Eudaimonist · 01-30-2003, 03:05 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by August Spies
Eudaimonist: wow and id pust most of those on stupidest books ive read or books I hate lists.

c'est la vie

What? Do you mean that not everyone is a libertarian or Objectivist?

I guess that explains the Democrats and Republicans.

All joking aside, I'm well aware that I have a minority opinion, but of course all infidels do.

Marduk · 01-31-2003, 02:25 PM

Various books that influenced my thinking in one way or another over the years:

Breakfast of Champions-Vonnegut
Childhood�s End-Clarke
Stranger in a Strange Land-Heinlein
Lathe of Heaven-LeGuinn
12th Planet-Sitchin (OK so he�s a bit of a nut, but it got me interested in ancient history, mythology,archaeology and the history of religion)
The Power of Myth-Campbell
Demon Haunted World/ Dragons of Eden-Sagan
Tao Te Ching-Lao Tsu
various Doug Adams books

01-30-2003, 03:15 AM	#32
Secular Pinoy Veteran Member Join Date: Feb 2001 Location: Quezon City, Philippines Posts: 1,994	Why I am Agnostic by Robert Ingersoll = Tipped my beliefs from liberal xian to nontheist. Pride and Prejudice by Jane Austen = Made me appreciate classical english literature. Why People Believe Weird Things by Michael Shermer = Made me realize that I should be on-guard against irrational beliefs, yet be respectful of other people's beliefs. Any collected-essays book by SJ Gould = Made me appreciative of the complexity of life and history. Animal Farm by George Orwell = Shows that religious ideology can lead to fundamentalism and oppression.

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01-29-2003, 11:28 PM	#31
Corgan Sow Veteran Member Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: Kuala Lumpur, Malaysia Posts: 1,537	Robert Green Ingersol - The Ghost (essay) Dan Barker - Losing Faith in Faith Nietzche - Thus Spake Zaratrustra

01-30-2003, 03:29 AM	#33
Rousseau_CHN Banned Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: Nowhere Land Posts: 441	The Myth of Sysiphus by Albert Camus. I was suicidal back then; but after reading that essay, I couldn't even bring myself to think about suicide ever again.

01-30-2003, 01:08 PM	#34
Eudaimonist Veteran Member Join Date: Aug 2000 Location: Sundsvall, Sweden Posts: 3,159	Just about anything, fiction or nonfiction, by Ayn Rand. (My fav is The Fountainhead.) Some works by people strongly influenced by Ayn Rand's ideas, such as Chris Sciabarra's Total Freedom, and David Kelley's A Life of One's Own. Some neo-Aristotelian defenses of classical liberalism, such as Rasmussen and Den Uyl's Liberty and Nature and Liberalism Defended. Aristotle's own Nicomachean Ethics. Some anarchocapitalist books, such as David Friedman's Machinery of Freedom, although I'm no longer an anarchocaptialist aside from the "let's have ambitious volunteers experiment with it on Mars and see what happens" variety. Some libertarian books, such as Virginia Postrel's The Future and its Enemies. Some economics books, such as Henry Hazlitt's Economics in One Lesson. And George Smith's Atheism: The Case Against God and Atheism, Ayn Rand, and Other Heresies. Oh, and how could I forget Martin Cowen's The Fellowship of Reason. (I think that's enough to mention.)

01-30-2003, 01:49 PM	#35
August Spies Contributor Join Date: Apr 2001 Location: The Vine Posts: 12,950	Eudaimonist: wow and id pust most of those on stupidest books ive read or books I hate lists. c'est la vie

01-30-2003, 02:24 PM	#36
thefugitivesaint Senior Member Join Date: Dec 2000 Location: philadelphia, PA. USA. Posts: 682	August: You'd be surprised as to what helps shape the personal outlook of people. Although i agree that Tolkien (as much as i love his books being the 1st books i ever tried to read on my own as a child) may not be a prime influence on most thinking peoples list. My concepts of power, society, technology, hierarchy and authoritarian structures was greatly altered by my love of cyberpunk. The concept that power is both detrimental and beneficial according to who possess it and how it is used, that it exists in hundreds of different centralized locations and that no one part of the structure can be changed which will affect all other centers of power (very foucaultian now that i think of it) were all concepts i gleemed from cyberpunk. Fiction can be a beautiful way of expressing things that cannot but come off stale and uninteresting when conveyed in academic terminology. The plight of the lives of many people around the world have been shared with me in the form of fiction and i have found that these personal narratives have stayed with me longer due to their emotional appeal. Take In the Time of the Butterflies by julia alvarez for a perfect example. I have no idea how i would have dealt with living under the shadow of a dictator who knew my name and had a personal stake in seeing me dead. To read this bit of "fictional history" is moving in a way that a more politically oriented book could not attempt. It's one thing to study the details of any given event and another to live it and then share this experience with the world. I'll list my most influential books when i have the chance. -theSaint

01-30-2003, 02:40 PM	#37
August Spies Contributor Join Date: Apr 2001 Location: The Vine Posts: 12,950	hey TFS, I never said fiction can't influence your beliefs. In fact I said the opposite myself, and put 1984 on my list. Hmm... I probably should put Invisible Man - Ellison for chaning how I think about race. I was just surprised someone could claim the Hobbit changed their views of anything. Ill check out that book you suggest. peace

01-31-2003, 02:25 PM	#39
Marduk Veteran Member Join Date: Aug 2000 Location: the 10th planet Posts: 5,065	Various books that influenced my thinking in one way or another over the years: Breakfast of Champions-Vonnegut Childhood�s End-Clarke Stranger in a Strange Land-Heinlein Lathe of Heaven-LeGuinn 12th Planet-Sitchin (OK so he�s a bit of a nut, but it got me interested in ancient history, mythology,archaeology and the history of religion) The Power of Myth-Campbell Demon Haunted World/ Dragons of Eden-Sagan Tao Te Ching-Lao Tsu various Doug Adams books

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