Inconnu

That last bit, even god judges, how can measly people not. It kinda rules out everybody including jesus (did his own bit of judging if I recall, the money lender thing?). Not to mention the conceited christian judging sinners on a daily basis.

beth

True, but I've known a few that never witnessed, they instead lived a godly life and helped others and never judged. In Christian theology, a person is not supposed to judge sinners. That is only Christ, the judge's right.

wildernesse

All I know is I am one. I think.

--tibac

Rhea

I'd like an answer from Christians on this, too.

I always thought of it as anyone who believed in the divinity of Jesus and wanted to follow him.

And no caveats. Because as soon as you say "and lives a good life" you have to specifically mark the line between good and bad to identify a Christian. And since "all fall short" that would make such a judgment unchristian. So anyone, ANYONE who says, "I'm not perfect, but I'm forgiven" is implicitly claiming that showing fruit or being good is NOT required to be Christian. And ANYONE who says "I'm so good there's nothing to forgive" is violating the bible.

So, IMO the only way I can comprehend it is to say, anyone who believes in the divinity of Jesus AND thinks it deserves following is a Christian.

Whether they succeed in following or not, does not affect their Christianness, IMO, based on biblical support "all fall short".

My 2¢

Radorth

But it's OK to call them "idiot" if they ask you any hard questions, or you don't like them personally. Or, is it possible you were never a Christian BG?

Actually I have presented a definition which even Catholics agree with- i.e. someone who believes the Nicene Creed, and has a personal testimony of God's power and grace working in their lives to produce fruit which they otherwise would not have.

Of course you can always find someone who says that is true of them and it is all but impossible to judge where some people are really coming from. Some very bad people appear good, and vice versa. Jesus himself said it was unwise to separate the wheat from the tares, as one risks uprooting the wheat.

Rad

Rhea

BG? Have you been calling the religious "idiots" again? I thought you gave that up for Lent?

beth

Bite me.

Rhea

So until people get an answer from God they aren't a Christian? Is that what you mean? That explains a lot of atheist stories, but not all. Some of them absolutely had those testimonies.

Didn't you say in the divorce thread that you could identify the non-christians by their fruit? Why were you being so unwise?

Yellum Notnef

How can anyone who claims to be a Christian ever prove that their "fruits" are a product god's power and grace?

And how could they possibly prove that they would otherwise not have them if it were not for the Christian god?

Rhea

Easy, Fent. Because nothing that is good ever comes from anywhere besides the god.

See?

If it's good, it's from god. ipso facto.