Theli

Weak!
This would not prove anything. If your "god" would be proven by a test like that you would have to give him some really bad odds.

Theophilus...
What evidence?
Some warped scientific statements, some dogma and a whole lot of doubts.
And that the bible says that unbelief is inexcusable, is this supposed to be proof of gods existance? arguments for his existance? threats?

More like a part of the bibles barbaric "good" against "evil" symbolism.

If you believe that, then you must believe I had breakfast with elvis on the moon this morning. What makes the bible's supernatural claims more probable then my own?

Ok. Lets here them. Atleast some of them...

Of course they are compelling to believers, why seeks remeption by an unseen benevolent god. Does this make them more true?

Intellectual efforts? Like what?

WWSD

00000000000000000000000000000777


So Theo, is Transmissable Spongiform Encephalopathy evidence for god's existence? TSE is a prion disease that causes death by rapidly progressing dementia if you did not know. A very nasty way to die in my opinion. You cite "creation" as evidence of god's existence, so do you include TSE along with that evidence?
If you say yes, do you also justify TSE as a way for your god to punish the unrightous?
If you say no, then where did TSE come from?
Satan? Or is it just something that happened somewhere along the way when god wasn't looking/didn't feel like intervening?
TSE arose from eating cattle infected with Prp sc, something I don't recall being outlawed in the bible. If you choose to cite the fall of man for TSE, please explain how TSE originated from a sheep protein and why the fall of man had something to do with its eventual entrance into the human population. Please be specific, and give citations that relate to TSE.
Thank you.

Jayhawker Soule

Sorry, but that is the most absurd and nonsensical piece of evasion I've seen in some time. Let me try again: Which one of these 300 do you find most compelling and best substantiated?

Tercel

Baloo,

Theophilus said:
"I'm sorry that your "theistic friends" didn't point out that God doesn't do "tricks" to make people believe."
I'm not sure I'd agree with Theophilus on this one and would suggest that whether or not God does "tricks" is entirely at God's discretion as he decides the situation warrents.
That said, my guess is:
38472910294673882910473924738569

Tercel

Bookman

Next time I'll be sure to include the proper citations.

Automaton

Why theophilus, of course we can't tell what God would do. It's absolutely ridiculous that anyone would proclaim to know anything about God! Well, I guess that's the end of all religions then.

Jack the Bodiless

I am well aware of the problems with the "Bethlehem birth" prophecy:

1. It referred to the tribe of Bethlehem Ephrata, not the town of Bethlehem.

2. It does not refer to Jesus, but to a military leader destined to defeat the Assyrians centuries before.

3. There is no reason to assume that Jesus actually WAS born in Bethlehem anyhow, this seems to be an addition to the later gospels to "fulfil the prophecy".

...So, if they're all "equally compelling and substantiated", then they're ALL as useless as this one?
Ah, now this is interesting. You seem to be saying that it does not matter if the prophecy is genuine or not.

If Baloo adopts this thinking, it should be easy to convert him to the religion of my choice. If he generates a random 32-digit number and tells me what it is, I will claim to have "prophesied" it.

Godless Sodomite

I thought the gist of your faith was that in order to believe in god you have to presuppose it to exist. What does that have to do with adequate evidence? And since you speak exclusively for the Christian faith, with so many non-Christians in the world, your assertion that god has provided "adequate evidence" is false. If the evidence were adequate then apologists needn't try so hard--and maybe they'd have a less scattered and more focused argument.

-Jerry

Baloo

First, the cursory: WWSD, no, Tercel, no. Both were wrong on the first digit (just wondering, anyone here think Tercel had a better chance than WWSD of being right?). And, into the discussion.

Theo: I think the point has been well made, and I don't want to kick a dead horse, but MAN is it amusing to hear the contradiction between "Jesus does not perform parlor tricks to draw followers..." only to hear how, as a follower, you are so drawn in by prophetic parlor tricks.

Anyway, I do want to clarify a bit... This thread is in response to the "what would it take?" question. Theists typically ask this question after presenting a "miraculous" story (either true, exaggerated, or flatly made up), in an attempt to show that naturalists "choose to reject God by rejecting all evidence for God", rather than naturalists "being unable to believe in God due to lack of evidence for God." This is, in a nutshell, me throwing the question right back into the faces of such theists.

Theo, I was a Christian. I have sincerely sought. I have intellectually assessed, and found nothing but a bunch of silly claims. Life is short - and now that I have no belief in an afterlife, I cannot justify pissing away my limited years chasing after a silly fantasy. You are free to attempt to justify the effort, but will likely produce either
1) a Pascal Wager argument not worth replying to, or
2) a list of "prophetic" and "miraculous" parlor tricks that I've read time and time again, which, upon scrutiny, are less impressive to me than the astounding "predictions" of Miss Cleo, amazing "prophesies" of Nostradamus, and spectacular "miracles" of David Copperfield.

Think of the 32-digit challenge as a phone-number. It's my way of saying, "God, if you're there, you are probably aware that I intend to be an atheist, a sheep that has wandered from your flock, for the rest of my days. If you want me to rejoin the flock, you do not need to move mountains, you do not need to flood the earth, you do not need to miraculously heal an amputee, and you do not need to conceive any more children through virgins (or crucify them, for that matter). All you have to do is pick up the phone, and call".

Theo, if you truly are a Christian, you know that you cannot lead me to Jesus. You must allow the Holy Spirit to work through you. And if God is planning on leading me, through you, with the Holy Spirit, to Jesus, it just ain't gonna happen with a list of prophesies or miracles you've committed to memory. The only way to get through to me is to put your fingers on that number pad to your right, close your eyes, and let the Trinity lead the way...

Baloo

Tercel: I like the way you phrased that. This is not my way of disproving God in any way. This is just my way of giving God a way to get a hold of me, whenever he wants, if ever he wants; while freeing me from ever having to look at any other events in my life and wondering "Is this God trying to reach me?".

JTB and others... haven't heard any representatives of the IPU yet, but man is it a royal mind-f*ck to try to imagine how I'd react if an IPU-rep got it right.