Pseudonymph

Right but the question I asked applied to old and incapacitated people as well. We are not allowed to "decide" when to draw the line when we get tired of dealing with an older relative who is lingering.

Please tell me what the difference is.

seanie

It's not a bad analogy at all. I'm just stating the obvious that 'human life' is not valued above all other considerations. We tend to value our own 'human life' rather highly. Other people's less so. Some people's hardly at all.

There tends to be a degree of latitude in just how highly we value human life.

seanie

The innocent-unborn child hasn't done anything to deserve death.

He or she dies because he or she has less rights than his or her mother.

Dr Rick

No, it's your values that are relativistic and arbitrary, and your desire to force them on others is unethical.

<strong> Your callous disregard for people and their freedom and privacy does make any rationale discussion with you difficult...

<strong> ...and your undeservedly self-righteous attitude towards those that don't share your superstitious theistic-based beliefs doesn't help much, either.

<strong> One who advocates enslavement does not value humans.

<strong> There's more to civilization than enslaving women.

<strong> Most in our society values humans over sperm and eggs, though you don't.

<strong> Or we could become a bunch of narrow-minded theists.

Rick

Pseudonymph

Rick...as a woman I find this statement totally off target. Long on rhetoric, and short on substance. Do you actually have anything to say?

Would you argue that after the child is born, that a women isn't any less enslaved? As has been mentioned here, when you become a parent, a part of you dies for this child. If it is "enslaving"
us after we're born, why not just kill it then?

[ November 01, 2002: Message edited by: SirenSpeak ]</p>

Dr Rick

Being a woman is not an excuse for your unsubstantial and meaningless post; other women can and do think rationally.

<strong> Strawman; a women who has chosen to have a child is not enslaved; she has made a choice to become a parent.

<strong> non sequitor

<strong> Another meaningless strawman; "Do you actually have anything to say?"

Rick

[ November 01, 2002: Message edited by: rbochnermd ]</p>

Pseudonymph

Just as a woman who gets pregnant chooses to engage in intercourse(the vast majority of cases)

A women is indeed more of a slave AFTER the child is born. Just try and argue that point...please.


Edited to add

"other" women? Do not insult me in this way. It is not benficial to this discussion nor appreciated.

[ November 01, 2002: Message edited by: SirenSpeak ]</p>

The Other Michael

Here's a thought experiment:

Five "persons" are lined up, and you've just been told that you've got to pick the four that will be allowed to live. You have no say in the fact that one will die - if you do or don't make a choice one will be picked at random and killed.

On one end we've got your basic four-celled zygote. Next up is a second trimester fetus, then a small child, an adult in their 30s, and an aged person in their 90s.

Which one are you going to pick, and why?

And after you've bumped that one off and they tell you to chose which of the remaining 4 to die next, which do you pick, and why?

You can spice up the exercise by making any one of the "persons" an extensively deformed microcephalic entity who is on 24x7 life support - shuffle that state around to different positions on the line up. Does your choice vary?

Remember, you need to structure this that you must make a choice - no avoiding the choice is allowed, no suiciding on your part to avoid choosing, etc.

It sounds like some would say they are all equally valuable "persons" - would you?

cheers,
Michael

Dr Rick

That does not mean she chooses to get pregnant

<strong> Choosing a course of action, even one that requires great committment, time, and energy, is not slavery.

<strong> Then don't post insulting drivel like this ever again: <strong> Rick

[ November 01, 2002: Message edited by: rbochnermd ]</p>

GeoTheo

The problem is you are debating with moral realativists. Within moral realativism no one can have a mistaken or wrong belief. Nothing is valued over anything else. Effectively right is determined by whover is in power.