KeithHarwood

It is is my observation that medicos and engineers think that because they have specialised knowledge in there own particular fields automatically have specialised knowledge in all fields. ("You're an engineer, of course you can write accounting software". I wouldn't do it because I knew nothing about accounting; neither did the engineer who did do it. But then, my degrees aren't in engineering.) In particular they think that just because their knowledge is based on scientific knowledge that they understand science. And the vast majority of them don't. They think it is a collection of bits and pieces from which they can select the bits they want and ignore the rest, just like the creationists. Some of them learn better, especially in the case of medicos who have been drafted into a proper clinical study program, but the majority don't.

Just because someone is educated in one field doesn't mean they are educted in all, but the medicos and engineers often have the arrogance to asert that they are.

KeithHarwood

Nope, it's the other way round. Special creation can only be sustained by willful ignorance and deliberate deception. It's the creationists who want to censor textbooks, who want legislation to ban anything but their own point of view. They want to force that ignorance on everyone. And it's only in the United States that they have very come anywhere near doing so. In the rest of the world where knowledge about evolution is freely available evolution is accepted as part of the furniture, just like light or electricity or gravity.

It's the creationists who blind themselves and the only debate about about evolution is whether the creationists should be allowed to blind everyone else.

scigirl

I am sorry to hear that.

Does she still believe in God after watching a baby die from aspergillosus because he was born with non-functional neutrophils?

Statistics please?
I do see the appeal for intelligent design. Hey I (sort of) understand their beliefs, seeing that I used to be an ID'er.

But well, they are wrong. I can't for the life of me understand quantum physics, or imagine how it works. This does not mean it is wrong.

Everything in biology--diseases included-makes sense in the context of evolution, not creationism.

OH yeah, well AHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH H....................

(scigirl fell into the evolutionist trap. Somebody throw her a rope)

I think you mean creationism here.

I encourage you to read some stuff from <a href="http://www.talkorigins.org" target="_blank">talkorigins.org</a> before you embarrass yourself further here.

scigirl

donotworry

Wow. Go eat some dinner and work out a bit and you have to answer about 100 questions. Well...here I go.

Of course she does. Did I still believe in God when my brother suffered a horrible accident and lost most of his left hand? Yes. Would I believe in God if my fiancée were taken from me? Of course. Why? Well, quite simply, becuase I know God is real and to deny Him based upon these events would be foolish. Does this mean that I wouldn't be mad or bitter? Probably not...but that does not mean I don't believe.

Well, actually, it works in both instances. Ever hear of the fall of man? Do you have anything more compelling that disease?

Well...I have read your complete archive, as I have read many other archives on the net for quite some time. I am not embarrassing myself...or if I am, only in your eyes. I have not said anything outlandish, I have not accused any prominent evolutionist of anything...

Ohh...it sounds like someone is bitter. Nah, just kidding. I assert that I have the intelligence (and knowledge for those you foaming at the mouth right now) needed to argue these points to an intelligent degree. I never stated that I have intimate knowledge of some obscure subdivision within physics or chemisty or biology. But then again, you don't know my complete background either....never assume anything.

Ok...here we go.

EVOLUTION (In my words):
The broad term attributed to the way all forms of life originated on this planet (earth) as the theory that life aroze from elements present on the earth millions of years ago to form primitive organisms which, over time, formed more complex organisms which, over much more time, formed much more complex organisms, finally giving our planet as is today.

To give you some other insights into my personality (for those of you who would like to pick me apart for some other reason).

I don't care if the Catholic church recognized Darwin's theory. As a matter of fact, I don't care much for the Catholic church as an institution. In addition, I don't care if a priest believes this or that (Think Biship John Spong).

I grew up completely immersed in evolution (evolution books for Christmas from Mom and Stepdad, who is a biology teacher...pretty ironic huh?) and humanistic thought. Evolution never fit no matter how much I wanted it to fit (I didn't want to believe in a person God to whom I was accountable...that would be too hard. I wanted to do whatever I wanted). Finally I reconciled myself to the fact that evolution really didn't work and I started to search for alternatives.

I will leave it at that for now....

Jesus Tap-Dancin' Christ

Argument from Incredulity.
Appeal to Authority.

Appeal to Authority
They have blinded themselves with what? Facts and evidence?

"Facts are chains that fetter man. A man without facts and faith alone can reshape the universe."
(quoting as best I can. Name the source for brownie points with me.)

Evolution is not at all contrary to belief in God. You can ask most of my Christian friends on this one.

scigirl

I assume you mean "than disease."

The fall of man explains all diseases and their particulars better than evolutionary theory? Hmm, let's examine some examples:

Scigirl: Type I diabetes is more common among native tribes because they evolved during a 'feast or famine' type situation and diabetes allowed them to better utilize and store nutrients. But in todays society--feast, no famine--diabetes is a detriment to health.

Creationist: We have diabetes because of the fall.

Scigirl: Sickle-cell anemia is more common among people of african desent, because this mutation confered an evolutionary advantage--namely, some resistance to malaria.

Creationist: Sickle-cell anemia is because of the fall.

Scigirl: Humans have 23 chromosomes, chimps have 24. Scientists think that two chimp chromosomes fused together somewhere along evolution. This predicts that we would find evidence of chimp telomere (end) sequences in the middle of one of our chromosomes. We do.

Creationist: God make it that way.

Your fiance may rebuke evolutionary biology, but modern medicine and biology as we know it would not exist without it.

scigirl

donotworry

Man, some people just don't read (or understand) the other side of arguments do they? Ok...here we go.

When Babylon fell and people were scattered, you got your different groups of people (using simple genetics you all learned in high school biology, you can see how group segregation forms diverse groups based upon characteristics within that group). Native tribes just adapted to those circumstances by developing Diabetes (Sickle-cell anemia for below). It has nothing to do with evolution.

If I (a white guy) were to move to Africa with my fiancee (a Cape Verdian), would my kids developing skin cancer more commonly than African people mean that we evolved differently? In this case, no. It means that I (read: my genes and decendents) have not developed any sort of resistance to the more intense rays of the sun because I have not had any need to yet. But given several generations, they would (Cape Verde is off the coast of Africa, so you can assume that some of the children would get those genes and would me more resistent to those deadly rays).

Simply...this is an example of a groups adaptive abilities. This is not evolution.


see above...I am starting to tire of this....


Uhm..my brothers first car was a '67 GT 350 clone (he didn't have the money for the real thing. Still doesn't, but the clone is nice enough!) has a bumper. It is big, clumsy and does the job. My car (an eclipse) also has a bumper. Smaller, sleeker. Also does the job. I predict that we can find that my brothers bumper evolved into my bumper..after all, they are similiar. You can find evidence of his bumper in my bumper. There is this thing called "reuse".

Jesus Tap-Dancin' Christ

Actually, what you stated there IS evolution-but in hyper-speed. Type I and sickle cell anemia are genetic--thus, in order for them to come about, evolution IS needed. Either that, or god just starts making a few here and there different just for the hell of it.

You have no clue as to what evolution is. You gave TWO perfect examples of it, and then state that it is NOT evolution.
Please, please, please, stop making my head hurt with your ignorance.

donotworry

Ok...you got me..I don't know anything at all about evolution (read: sarcasm). Go ahead...enlighten me.

The examples above ARE NOT EVOLUTION. Simply, they are adaptation. I will not call you ignorant (though I should...and have just cause), that would not benefit anybody.

Jesus Tap-Dancin' Christ

Adaptation is what evolution is about--specifically, adaptation through mutation. Sickle cell anemia is a mutation in one part of a chromosome.
Diabites is a mutation as well.
Now--
Tell me exactly WHY they are not evolution?