Freethought & Rationalism Archive

crocodile deathroll · 12-11-2002, 04:46 AM

If a person with Alzheimer decides to vote in an election one day, he may well forget and go to vote a second time around.
Sure a scrutineer may pull him up and inform him that he has already voted.

So if you have already lived you life and it is totally forgotten with the death of the brain you had in that life, then is there a great cosmic scrutineer out there to inform you that you have already lived your "one" life?

[ December 11, 2002: Message edited by: crocodile deathroll ]

Kharakov · 12-11-2002, 08:49 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Theli:
In what sense excacly do you use the word "intelligence"? Why should a mouse be considered intelligent, while a computer capable of performing the mouse's actions (and more) is not?
There are several types of intelligence, for instance does a computer master mathematics far far better than any human. It also masters strategy on a level that can compete with humans.

I think Electrogod was stating computers are tools for human intelligence.

Do levers lift weights? Do computers play chess? Do humans use levers to lift weights? Do humans use computers to play chess (writing algorithms....)?

Computers are tools for the mind the same way that levers are tools for the body.

Theli · 12-11-2002, 09:52 AM

Kharakov...

Quote:

I think Electrogod was stating computers are tools for human intelligence.

The question was weither computers could be consider intelligent, it is completely irrelavent what purpose the computer has or how humans utilize and relate to it.

Quote:

Do levers lift weights? Do computers play chess? Do humans use levers to lift weights? Do humans use computers to play chess (writing algorithms....)?

Computers are tools for the mind the same way that levers are tools for the body.

And the body is a tool for the mind. I think we shouldn't refer to computers so much as tools as they do most of the work themselfs. As for the questions above: Yes on all except the last. It's a question of relation, if you play chess against the computer you are not playing against the game's designer in the sense you play against another human player. You are however challenging his programing and chess abilities.

Jamie_L · 12-11-2002, 11:58 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Chip:
I continuosly build new computer systems to keep them up to date with the latest and greatest technology. I reload the programs I use and have customized and written onto the new machines. If we are to say they are alive when they are running, then when the machine is off, they are dead.

Yeah, but death is a bit more like smashing your computer into bits with a hammer. Then letting acid slowly eat away at all the parts.

And, of course, you have no other copies of the programs.

Jamie

crocodile deathroll · 12-11-2002, 02:12 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Jamie_L:


Yeah, but death is a bit more like smashing your computer into bits with a hammer. Then letting acid slowly eat away at all the parts.

And, of course, you have no other copies of the programs.

Jamie

Then again could the "soul" be just analogous to the most basic operating system and that happens be emulated in thousands of other in tact computers.
Phase 1 You begin you life initially at one with all computers (the genetic bluepoint for the brain) that share this operating systems and Phase 2 as you add new files and programs they become less homogenous and you a narrowed downed to one certain computer (brain), and when you die you return to Phase 1

Powerfull Voices · 12-11-2002, 03:33 PM

If only we could hear from someone who died and rose again. Or maybe even read it for ourselves in a book, maybe even the most historically reliable book in existence...Oh

Powerfull Voices · 12-11-2002, 03:36 PM

If only we could hear from someone who died and rose again. Or maybe even read it for ourselves in a book, maybe even the most historically reliable book of antiquity in existence...Oh

Beoran · 12-12-2002, 04:07 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Powerfull Voices:
If only we could hear from someone who died and rose again. Or maybe even read it for ourselves in a book, maybe even the most historically reliable book of antiquity in existence...Oh

What are you talking about? There is nothing in the Quran about a guy who died and rose again.

Keith Russell · 12-12-2002, 07:25 AM

Greetings:

Consciousness (awareness) whether animal (including human) or computer, is the result of a process.

When the biological or mechanical systems (whose operation allows awareness to take place) cease, then awareness ceases--and consciousness (awareness), ends as well.

One can argue in favour of the notion that consciousness continues after death, but one must first explain the process that must be present in order for awareness to continue once the physical processes (which enable awareness during life) have stopeed.

To lend even basic credence to the claim that there is 'life (consciousness/awareness) after death, evidence must be provided of an alternative process to maintain awareness.

Simply claiming that there is life after death, is not nearly good enough.

Keith.

crocodile deathroll · 12-12-2002, 11:40 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Keith Russell:
Greetings:

Consciousness (awareness) whether animal (including human) or computer, is the result of a process.

When the biological or mechanical systems (whose operation allows awareness to take place) cease, then awareness ceases--and consciousness (awareness), ends as well.

One can argue in favour of the notion that consciousness continues after death, but one must first explain the process that must be present in order for awareness to continue once the physical processes (which enable awareness during life) have stopeed.

To lend even basic credence to the claim that there is 'life (consciousness/awareness) after death, evidence must be provided of an alternative process to maintain awareness.

Simply claiming that there is life after death, is not nearly good enough.

Keith.

I wonder how your "soul" knew where your body was going to be born?

12-11-2002, 04:46 AM	#31
crocodile deathroll Veteran Member Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Darwin Posts: 1,466	If a person with Alzheimer decides to vote in an election one day, he may well forget and go to vote a second time around. Sure a scrutineer may pull him up and inform him that he has already voted. So if you have already lived you life and it is totally forgotten with the death of the brain you had in that life, then is there a great cosmic scrutineer out there to inform you that you have already lived your "one" life? [ December 11, 2002: Message edited by: crocodile deathroll ]</p>

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12-11-2002, 03:33 PM	#36
Powerfull Voices Junior Member Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Monterey, TN Posts: 25	If only we could hear from someone who died and rose again. Or maybe even read it for ourselves in a book, maybe even the most historically reliable book in existence...Oh

12-11-2002, 03:36 PM	#37
Powerfull Voices Junior Member Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Monterey, TN Posts: 25	If only we could hear from someone who died and rose again. Or maybe even read it for ourselves in a book, maybe even the most historically reliable book of antiquity in existence...Oh

12-12-2002, 07:25 AM	#39
Keith Russell Veteran Member Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: Overland Park, Kansas Posts: 1,336	Greetings: Consciousness (awareness) whether animal (including human) or computer, is the result of a process. When the biological or mechanical systems (whose operation allows awareness to take place) cease, then awareness ceases--and consciousness (awareness), ends as well. One can argue in favour of the notion that consciousness continues after death, but one must first explain the process that must be present in order for awareness to continue once the physical processes (which enable awareness during life) have stopeed. To lend even basic credence to the claim that there is 'life (consciousness/awareness) after death, evidence must be provided of an alternative process to maintain awareness. Simply claiming that there is life after death, is not nearly good enough. Keith.

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