brighid

I disagree as it is generally a matter of the breeders and not the breed. The few dogs in those breeds (although more then other breeds) simply do not warrant the necessity of breed extinction.

I have seen the visciousness of the pit-bull, but I have also seen the gentleness as well as the supremely behaved dog. This again reflects on the breeder and the owner, not simply the dog. Pit bulls have been bred (to where they are today) to be fighters, just as my beautiful Chinese Sharpei (who is said to be extremely aggressive ... yeah, tell that to my dog and the dogs bred for temperment from our breeder).

I think what it requires is very strict breeding terms and possibly even specific instruction for owners of these dogs. I also think there is a sound purpose for dogs bred for personal protection.

It would be a tragedy to have well bred dog lines go to extinction because of irresponsible breeders and owners.

Brighid

Farren

With respect Brighid, I think you're still focusing on the harm those animals cause to others. I'm talking about what it feels like to be those breeds. Some of them are extremely tense.

Also, an fighting pit dog was never bred to guard humans or serve any other useful purpose.

And lets take a look at Bull Terriers for an example of "Well bred" dogs that are profoundly badly bred. They frequently suffer from schizophrenia (they see things and hear sounds that aren't there, and react to them) and are so out of touch with their nurturing instincts that mothers usually have to be carefully watched to insure they don't accidentally kill their puppies.

Aside from the fact that they're hilarious and idiosyncratic animals, how is this "well bred"?

To extend the argument, would it be OK to breed dogs with an extra useless vestigial leg that made them stumble everywhere and look funny and loveable, then call it well bred just because they're endearing?

lisarea

Farren, I hadn't heard of this pit schizophrenia.

But I agree in large part with objections to breeding dogs for our amusement. Dachshunds have bad backs. English Bulldogs can't give birth naturally--they require C-sections--and have massive breathing problems, Golden Retrievers tend toward something called "Golden Rage," German Shepherds, during the height of their popularity, developed a serious tendency toward bad hips brought on by ridiculous breed standards that encouraged a bizarre, wedge-like profile, etc. Much of these problems, with the exception of the English Bulldogs, can be attributed almost entirely to shoddy breeding standards, which are often exacerbated by fleeting breed popularity and so forth.

I am a strong advocate of the hardy mutt, although I have to admit that I've had two purebreds in a row (a greyhound, and my American Bulldog). I put this down to the "Love is blind" phenomenon, though.

However, I can't argue against the appeal of a healthy, well-bred purebred dog, either.

Not with an 85# dog on my lap, anyway. (Seriously. He heard thunder, and he needs to sit on my lap for a bit, apparently.)

Viti

I have had two purebreds...both still rescued. I have never said "I think I will go buy a dog and I want breed X"

Farren

Same here. We just always seem to end up with (apparently) purebreds. Out labrador is beautiful enough to be a show dog. Big (slightly chubby) and glossy black from head to foot - he's a shelter dog.

Our pug, who looks just like the pug in Men In Black, flat nose, little black ears, incredibly expressive face - is just ADORABLE. He makes little grunting and snarfing noises all the time which I'm worried is breathing problems but just adds to his charm.

Having the little bugger sitting at my feet while I work, snuffling and snarfing all day is pure joy. We picked him up off the street after he was hit by a car.

The SPCA couldn't track his owners so we kept him.

The Alsation I got from my former drug dealer (I went through a period of doing a lot of Ecstacy) who kept her in a 2m x 2m concrete enclosure without a kennel and fed her, but never loved her.

After I begged him repeatedly to let me rather take care of her he finally relented when he moved to an apartment. She was six months old and was delerious for about a year about the change in attention and environment.

It was probably also puppyhood but she ate two of my curtains, three jackets and about a dozen cushions (well not quite ate but chewed enough to render useless)

Ab_Normal

wandering off topic, 'cause, darn it, I can.

Is this the "Scottish fold" mutation? I had not heard that it was deleterious to the animal.

Marduk

�There's also a contingency of people who want a "vicious" dog for home security. I live in a relatively depressed urban area, and talk to people every now and then who have these grand but stupid guard dog ideas. They want to get a pit bull (it's always a pit bull) and basically be emotionally cruel to it, so it's aggressive�

People are the jerks, this is the exact OPPOSITE of what you want in an attack/guard dog, you want a well adjusted calm dog that will only attack on command, not because it wants to. This is the way it�s done for Police dogs, you must be able to call the dog off. Guard dogs are to make noise when an intruder is lurking not attack.
This is the biggest case of throwing the baby out with the bath water I have ever seen. The good dogs do out weighs the bad in such extreme ways it�s not even worth considering taking any action against these critters (which we are responsible for bringing into existence in the first place) Dogs killing humans is so rare it�s barely worth discussing. I�ve been bitten several times myself, shit happens.
But I will agree about the pit bulls, retrievers retrieve, pointers point, herders herd, St. Bernards slobber, Pit Bulls attack dogs, they should be monitored more closely than other breeds, more strict enforcement of leash/fence laws, muzzles in public etc.

and stay away from my golden retriever, he may lick you to death!

Farren

Yes,

apparently they're much more likely to get inner ear infections and suffer from deafness, which is horrible for a cat.

RevDahlia

Dogs are like people. Some are assholes, some are terrific, most are a little of both. I think that the "but they're not rational" argument is specious. Dogs are rational --just in a doggy way, not a human way. It is entirely possible to learn what is rational to a dog and act accordingly. Just like learning a different language.

My family had two big dogswhen I was growing up -- a purebred Rott, and a Rott/English setter cross. The purebred was hopeless. He was dumb and fearful and mean, and even after hours and hours of obedience training and affection and care he was still dangerous. Eventually he had to be put down. The Rott cross, however, was the best dog ever. Canny, wise, smart, intuitive, fun and affectionate and a real asset to our lives. You never can tell.

I do think pits are significantly more dangerous than other dogs. The things are bred to be vicious, for heaven's sake. Some of them may be mensches, but I think that overall they're loose cannons. A friend rescued a pit cross and after a year of work the dog is finally, FINALLY showing some progress. She is still not safe around other dogs or children, though, and the prognosis is grim.

edited for typos

DBT

Well for my two cents worth today I would just like to say that I think that dogs act more rationally,are more trustworthy and better behaved than most people.