Claudia

JGL:
You have forgotten the basic reason why we eat more slowly: for us, a meal is first a social time, where we take the time for discussion. Be it with firends at restaurant, with colleagues at work, with family at home.
Yesterday evening I went out with some friends, to eat a pizza (thin crusted) or a salad, depending of personal choice and an ice cream.
We sat at table at 20h15, we left at 23h00!

Kvalhion

Update

A couple of months ago I was posting in the other Atkins thread and wrote that I was thinking of giving Atkins a try. I had been doing the Zone off and on for a year and found that it wasn't really working for me.

I read as much as I could stand about low carbing, Atkins, the misconceptions, best practices, etc, so by the time I started I had a good idea what I was going to do and what I was getting myself into. I fully realized that once I adjusted my body to low carb, abandoning it would cause a backlash.

So, I started April 26th and began at standard induction levels - 20 carbs a day, 15 of them coming from green, leafy vegetables and the others from hidden or low carb sources such as cheese, salad dressing, and eggs.

Tomorrow (Friday the 13th) will be the end of my seventh week. To date, I've dropped 23 pounds without any "cheats". I haven't done a lipid profile or anything but I am feeling great. I can't remember even getting a cold in the last seven weeks.

After browsing through eight pages of this thread ( ) , I thought I would make a few points for anyone who is curious:

- This wasn't much of a lifestyle adjustment for me. From the first day, I simply adjusted the kinds of foods I was eating. I made sure to drink plenty of water (a gallon a day on average; I try to drink 1.5 gallons a day) and exercise regularly (about 5 times a week). Sure this takes some motivation, but it wasn't shocking or anything. If I had drank a ton of water and exercised regularly, would I have lost weight before with my old eating habits? Probably. The difference, however, is that before I would inevitably eat too many carbs in a large meal and feel lethargic, which would eventually sap my motivation to exercise and drink water, which would eventually lead me back to the habits that lead me to be so overweight. Now, I know my eating plan is working for me. The temptation to cheat disappears with the lack of appetite. I know each workout is benefitting me and it keeps me motivated. To me, that's not a small thing.

- I do not overeat protein. Using various body fat / lean body mass calculators, I figured out I needed about 130 to 140 grams of protein a day to maintain my lean body mass. Using fitday.com, I logged the foods I was eating and targeted a protein amount near this total. Many pepole who follow Atkins also do not eat red meat every day. I usually eat red meat three times a week. I primarily stick to egg substitute, chicken, turkey, and fish for my protein sources. I do occasionally eat processed meats such as pepperoni and bacon.

- I do not gorge on fat. I try to keep my calories from fat at about 55% per day. I do use regular salad dressing but not in huge amounts. I am not a big butter, heavy cream, cream cheese, etc, fan so it's not all that difficult to maintain a reasonable fat amount. I am certainly eating more fat than I did in the Zone, but as my carbs increase my fat intake will decrease.

- I eat vegetables every day. I make salads with spinach or romaine lettuce, I eat tomatos, celery, cucumbers, red and green peppers, and other vegetables. I also supplement daily with vitamins. I calculated the monthly cost of my vitamins to be roughly $30. Not too bad.

- I stayed at induction (20 carbs/ day) level for 4 weeks. Over the last three weeks I am slowly increasing my carb count. Weeks five and six were 25 a day, week 7 has been 30 carbs / day. Most of the increase comes from vegetables, but I am also sampling berries occasionally.

Finally, by searching through forums online, reading cookbooks, reading labels, etc, I am finding that there are low carb or reasonable carb substitutes for nearly anything. People enjoy cheesecake, ice cream, bread, pizza, soup, chili, etc in reasonable amounts. I have not found Atkins to be a deprivation diet at all.

Do I lose weight because I am not eating as many calories as I did before? Perhaps, but it is no small thing that I am much less hungry and have almost no cravings for sugary foods. Six hours can go by easily before I even notice that I haven't eaten. Of course, six hours is the max time that is suggested between meals or snacks.

Eventually as my goal nears I will move towards a modified Atkins-maintenance Zone plan to get back to a 40/30/30 ratio. The knowledge and experience I've gained in just two months will go a long way in making this a way of life. This definitely works for me, and I am very happy with my progress thus far.

Thanks for the good info and keep up the discussions!

JGL53

Sorry - Dr. Clower (in his book "The Fat Fallacy") discusses this quite extensively.

I envy you your leisurely lifestyle. Unfortunately, I eat alone about half the time and with only my significant other the rest of the time, for the most part. I generally only have a meal with a group of friends about once a month.

However, for the last month now, by eating smaller bites and laying out a measured amount of food, I have managed to increase my average eating time from 5 to 10 minutes to about 15 to 20 minutes per meal.

Even this small change has made a difference, I think. I seem to get by on less food. E.g., I've noticed that I now only eat about half of my meals in restaurants, and take the rest home in a doggie bag to eat for a meal the next day.

I had already been avoiding junk and fast food (his other big emphasis), but I have increased the per cent of healthy carb-rich foods in my diet (I do still eat a low carb breakfast and late night snack). He doesn't recommend it - as he is not a low-carb guru - but I am still avoiding sugary desserts - I am eating more fruit though.

As long as I keep up the level of exercise I'm doing now, I think this will work for me.

In short, I really think Dr. Clower is on to something.

JGL53

Thanks for posting, Kvalhion.

I am now making a formal request to all the blankety-blanks that have been attacking me on this thread, to switch off onto you.

Obviously, like me, you don't know what the Hell you're talking about. You didn't cite any epidemiological studies for support, your diet is in violation of published government recommendations for the past 30 years, and (here's the clincher) yours is just an anecdotal story - utterly unscientific and therefore meaningless and useless.

Godot

Request denied.

Quote:

Obviously, like me, you don't know what the Hell you're talking about. You didn't cite any epidemiological studies for support, your diet is in violation of published government recommendations for the past 30 years, and (here's the clincher) yours is just an anecdotal story - utterly unscientific and therefore meaningless and useless.

Seeing as how this thread was discussing theory before you decided to derail it with your inanities, then yes, the validity of anecdotes is questionable. I'm surprised you can't get that through your head. I even typed slowly so you could be sure to follow.

~~~~~~~~~~~~
Kvalhion: I'm glad to see that you're comfortable with this change in your diet, although you can be rest assured that I disagree with your chosen method. Good luck sticking with it in the future!

ps418

Support of what? His own personal experience? I don't see a single statement in Kvalhion's post that requires citation of epidemiological information. Those only become necessary when claims are made about the average effects of something in a population.

Kvalhion, congratulations on dropping the lbs. That's just about the best thing you could do for your health.


Patrick

JGL53

How does it (apologies to Barbara Walters) make you FEEL, Kvalhion, to have a total stranger on the internet "disagree with your chosen method" of diet, i.e, how you chose to conduct your personal life?

Please try not to cry in your (low-carb) beer about this - too much sodium may be bad for your B.P.



1. EXACTLY
2. I was being sarcastic - that's why the is there.
3. Have a nice day.

cheetah

OK, I have to admit I did not read this entire thread, so I hope no one has posted this yet, but a friend of mine claims that Dr. Atkins really did not die by falling, but of a heart attack and they are covering it up. She says she knows someone who knows the family. Whatever. She does seem the type to be taken in easily and say whatever without any proof. Always fun to start rumors, though, eh?

As far as my two cents: I eat whole grain breads, pastas, rice and high fiber cereals, in addition to as many veggies as I can fit in (not much, my goal is 9 servings fruits and veg, but usu. only get about 5). Carbs are a good thing, as many people here have argued, and a great way to keep your digestive tract healthy!

Kvalhion

Well, I don't think Godot is being vindictive or malicious or anything. We all have our reasons and opinions on what works and what doesn't in a dietary sense. The bottom line is that people have to do what will work best for them, and they are ultimately the ones responsible for their own health.

Our experiences will vary. Some people are not metabolically resistant and do not have a hyperglycemic reaction to carbs. Other people do; it varies from person to person. Like JGL has said, advocating low carb as a way of eating does not mean we think everyone should or has to eat this way. However for certain types of people, eating low carb can be an effective way to lose weight and keep it off.

In an ideal world, everyone would not have any problems related to food and its effects upon them. Realistically, there are a lot of people who are overweight and are at serious risk for diabetes, heart disease, etc. For such people, suggesting they merely change their way of eating isn't realistic. Trust me, we've tried, and for whatever reason we always seem to back to our old habits. With eating low carb, the cravings and hunger disappear. Even if it can be argued that the lack of carbohydrates is harmful to the body, I would think that being 100 lbs overweight would be even more harmful to the body. Once in maintenance, the weight is off and people seem to adjust to more "normal" eating habits. For me, just getting to that point is well worth any potential risks of my chosen diet.

I think there should be a common middle ground. Right now, the cheapest and most prevalent foods are the ones that are high in sugar and trans fats. Hopefully the idea of less harmful carbohydrates in favor of reasonable substitutions will catch on, and more carb sensible products will become popular. Already there are a lot of alternatives to foods that have reasonable carb amounts instead of the mass amounts the foods normally have.

I guess we'll have to wait and see. In the meantime though, I am happy with the path I have chosen.

JGL53

Kvalhion sums it all up well. This is basically what I've been saying on this and other threads over the last several months on this subject. The government's recommendation of a fifty-five per cent carb diet for EVERYONE is fucked.

There are healthy carb-rich foods, such as fruit, whole grain breads, pastas, rice and potatoes that some people can eat as the basis of their diet, with lesser amounts of lean animal protein from meat and dairy, green vegetables, legumes, nuts, healthy oils, etc.. Many people can and do eat this way, and are healthy because of it. They obviously have no hyperinsulin production in response to a carb-rich diet.

Others, however, like me, do a hell of a lot better on a diet that emphasizes protein and fat or oil as major caloric sources, with nuts, legumes and green veggies next , with smaller amounts of fruits, grains, and potatoes - and with sugary desserts avoided about 98 per cent of the time.

For those who just have no clue as to why this is, here's a thought: instead of continuing to ignorantly criticize what you don't understand, why not read any or all of the low carb diet books available and/or go to Atkinsfriends.com BBs and ask the hundreds of nice people there to 'splain it to you.

The government sycophants who disagree so much have no proof of THEIR assertions, so, I state again, the solution is for each non-retarded person of legal age to learn as much as he/she can about nutrition, and try different dietary styles until one is found that proves 'optimum' for him/her the individual.