Marduk

Sorry people I just don’t find the UFO’s/Aliens as such an outrageous idea. I can’t think of anything unique about our star (there are millions of the same class in this galaxy) that would make me think it came about in such a unusual way that our planet is the only one where life could evolve to build or want to build space craft or seek out other life forms. The ‘ewww it’s to faaarrrrrrr’ argument just doesn’t hold water. Sooner or later all stars and planets become incapable of sustaning life, then you must either move or sit and die. Even today I’ll bet you could find plenty of volunteers willing to spend the rest of their lives in space if a trip to anywhere was planned.
“Hey look up ahead, a pale blue dot inhabited only by some talking apes, our new home! Gort! Lock & load!”

Ism Schism.

Woohaa! I feel like a Christian all over again, and the funny thing is: I knew I would, but I posted anyway . Call me a glutton for punishment, but I really do not care...

Good grief. With folks like this, who needs aliens?

Indeed. With a government that actually studies UFOs for 22 years, who needs 'em? Keep on sliding with the Ad Homs. Also: blow me!

What is it that you find strange:

1. That the government would waste taxpayer’s money for 22 years studying UFO’s?

2. That during 22 years nothing was found?

3. That the government has done no research during the past 21 years?

What I find strange most closely approximates to number 2. One has to have very serious suspicions to study something for a total of 22 years, or can one actually study complete bullshit for 22 years, and then come out and say: "oh it was complete bullshit...sorry". In regards to number 3, I'm quite sure government still studies this, but it now behind closed doors -- with just a hint of public ridicule for those who dare to try to make any sense of it. Anyone who takes the government at actual face value deserves Dubya's "prayer shield"...

RE: Your list of “reputable” people who had actual sightings or voiced public opinions: it seems nothing much has been seen or said since 1978. I guess the aliens, having observed, dissected, etc. have now all gone back to their homeworlds to report on what easy pickings we are. If the aliens home planet is about 10 light years away, and assuming that they can travel at about .9c, then I guess that any day now they will descend upon us. The big question is which will come first: The alien invasion or the “Second Coming”.

Did I call these "reputable" people? No, I don't believe I did -- your government did -- In the case that you are a "skeptic's skeptic" I would suggest a serious and bloody revolt. Did I even mention the word 'alien', no I don't believe I did. Again more UFO/Religion wordplay, what else is new...

Special thanks to lpetrich for most closely representing the other side of the coin, I'll respond more in depth tommorow, and thanks to marduck for being a pimp. C'est la vie...

Confusion...

[ January 17, 2002: Message edited by: Ism Schism. ]</p>

Asha'man

As an amateur astronomer, I have some definite opinions on UFOs.

I once took a friend stargazing. Shortly after sunset, we were scanning the sky for satellites. (They are easy to spot, look for a dim star that moves slowly across the sky, but does not have red & green strobe lights.) My friend spotted a moving light, and tried to point it out to me. I looked, and was unable to find it. She was certain of what she saw, so I tried sighting along her pointed arm. As it turns out, it was a bright stationary star with few stars around it. Her inexperienced eyes had simply tricked her into thinking it was moving. I can pretty reliably tell an airplane from an earth orbiting satellite, and stars and planets are obvious to me, but not everybody is an experienced observer.

Eyewitness accounts of radical velocity changes and other non-aerodynamic behavior are also suspect. Have you ever stood around at an airport and watched planes approach at night? The landing lights can appear to be perfectly stationary as they approach, yet they are moving towards you at hundreds of miles per hour.

I have also worked with the government. I can’t imagine them finding a hole in the ground in less than 6 months, so an elusive target like UFOs should take a century or two.

However, I do believe that life may exist on other planets. The conditions on earth are unlikely to be unique, and there is increasing evidence that complex molecules (of the type needed by biological processes) can be formed in space.

But I also know how big space is. Really Big. Mind Numbingly Big. And the speed of light is a serious limitation. If living creatures were going to visit us, they would have to know where we are, and have started heading here years ago. People talk about our first radio signals calling the aliens here, or perhaps our use of nuclear weapons. But I don’t think there has been enough time since those things happened. A radio signal might take thousands of years to get to a listener, and the listener might take millions of years to get back to us in person. It just doesn’t seem likely. Not impossible, but not likely.

Lastly, if earth is being visited by aliens, why don't they want to talk to us? Ok, don't answer that one.

tronvillain

Just thought I'd point out that that the phrase "flying saucers" comes from a distortion of crescent shaped unidentified flying objects being described as moving like a rock or saucer skipping accross water. Strange that so many sightings after Kenneth Arnold's in 1947 were of saucers or discs.

echidna

Why, of all the thousands of reported sightings each year, especially those of contact, are there so few (if any) versions which actually correlate ? Every damn story is different, different spaceship, different alien, different behaviour.

Jeez, even if 2 % were truthful, it paints a picture of the Earth as a veritable interplanetary rush hour shopping mall being buzzed by hundreds of species in thousands of varying craft. One wouldn’t be able to take a walk in the park without catching a glimpse of half a dozen of the little green proctologists.

And yet through all this, no hard evidence ? Roswell is the best we can do ?

Golly, next thing you’ll be discrediting IPU’s …

Believers all too well underestimate the ease with which hoaxes may be perpetrated, and also the temptations and motivations to do so. Crop circles is an obvious recent case in point. There is seemingly no end to human gullibility (and mischief).

Anyone with half a sense of humour knows how much fun it is to mislead someone, and also how easy it is. Sincerity, if you can fake that you’ve got it made.

[ January 17, 2002: Message edited by: echidna ]</p>

The Resistance

The iditoic son of an idiot paid off by American and foreign oil tycoons still made president while losing the vote. What does anything amaze you anymore?

Sorry, I know that was off topic, but it was too easy and couldn't be left alone.

Ray K

You were saying?

The Resistance

Fine I misspelled a word, I still stand by my garbled statment.

lpetrich

First, there are several kinds of UFO reports. The term "UFO phenomenon" suggests that they are all the same sort of thing, which they are not.

The most common sort of report is of lights at night; a large number of them turn out to be the planet Venus. However, some of them do turn out to be more oddball objects, like airplanes with unusual lights and prankster-created small candle-powered hot-air balloons. One interesting sort of report is being followed by some strange light -- that's a perceptual artifact resulting from the light source being at a great distance, with an essentially zero parallax. UFO skeptic Donald Menzel remembered from his childhood how the Moon seemed to follow him around as he traveled at night.

More detailed reports are often hoaxes; the same can be said of many pictures of "flying saucers".

Many alien-abduction stories seem to me to be nightmares; I've had many odd dreams, though none of alien abductions.

And some seem to be fantasies, pure and simple, such as the stories of Space Brothers and Sisters. I can't help but chuckle over Truman Bethurum's description of saucer pilot Aura Rhanes. Which is why the more "serious" UFOlogists tend to avoid such contactees.

There is a distinct shortage of clear physical evidence, such as the remains of a crashed extraterrestrial spaceship. While an ETS will likely look much like an Earthling airplane or missile, there will be plenty of details that will give it away.

Nuts and bolts and similar parts will be constructed with different size conventions, such as different lengths, widths, screw pitches, and so forth. Parts that must fit with other parts usually come in standardized sizes, and a different size convention would suggest something unusual about the vehicle's construction.

It would likely have writing on it, but this writing would be unintelligible, even if some of it vaguely resembled some examples of Earthling writing. This writing would appear in contexts that suggest identification and warning labels -- "Avionics", "Coolant Pump", "Danger: High Voltage", "Run Self-Test", "Data Link", "Reset", etc.

Finally, I have no fundamental objection to the idea of the Earth having extraterrestrial visitors; my question is: is there actual evidence?

cricket

None.