Eric H

Hello Shadowy Man,

What are the facts, how can you love someone more than you love yourself?

peace

Eric

Eric H

Hi Kubulai,
quote
why does the universe need a cause?
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It dosen't have to have a cause or purpose, but if there where a purpose,

What would be the greatest purpose for the universe to exist?

peace

Eric

Shadowy Man

I don't know. I'm not sure whether the question is even meaningful. Can you directly compare the love of oneself to the love of another in some quantifiable manner?

"I have 5 loves for myself, but 8 loves for you."

Queen of Swords

Originally posted by Eric H
To love someone more than you love yourself requires sacrifice,

Why? Is sacrifice not required for any other kind of love?

If you only had a hundred pounds and you gave someone sixty, that would show a greater love for them.

What if you only gave them ten? What's the monetary cutoff limit where "greater love" turns into 'love" or maybe "lesser love"?

In human terms the way to show this love in the greatest way is if you are prepared to risk your own life for another, you have nothing greater to give.

Actually, you do. If, for instance, you owned the lives of ten million other people, that might be something greater that you could give (assuming, of course, that it is possible to own other people's lives). If you valued your convictions more than you valued your life, then those would be something greater that you could give up.

What about God, how can he sacrifice himself in this greatest way?

He could give up his convictions and principles.

For the sake of argument, what would happen to the universe if this all-powerful God sacrificed himself in this way?

He could create the universe in such a way that it still functioned after his death.

To what extent could a God love humanity more than he loves himself?

He could understand that humanity is inherently fallible and therefore forgive it at the expense of his desire for justice.

When you seek ‘an ultimate’ there is a need to keep pushing the boundaries until you can go no further.

Indeed.

It is only by constant challenging that you can search for a greatest purpose.

Indubitably.

Peace

Pizza.

Deadbeat

QoS, you are my favorite person ever.

Kubulai

why should I assume that?

Eric H

Hi QoS.
quote
Why? Is sacrifice not required for any other kind of love?
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I am sure that you do sacrifice part of yourself when you love, if it means giving up something of yourself.
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What if you only gave them ten? What's the monetary cutoff limit where "greater love" turns into 'love" or maybe "lesser love"?
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Again only my thoughts but if you have a hundred pounds and give someone ten pounds, you are making a sacrifice, because you could have kept the whole hundred.

But the way I see it, is that you love yourself more because you keep ninety percent for yourself.

So it seems that if you love someone more than you love yourself you would need to give at least fifty one percent of what you owned in some way.
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Actually, you do. If, for instance, you owned the lives of ten million other people, that might be something greater that you could give (assuming, of course, that it is possible to own other people's lives). If you valued your convictions more than you valued your life, then those would be something greater that you could give up.
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Okay but in human terms maybe the only way to own that many lives is if they where your slaves.

And yes they could be set free.

But does God own us?

If he does not own us how can he set us free? As I understand it we have to willingly choose God.

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For the sake of argument, what would happen to the universe if this all-powerful God sacrificed himself in this way?

He could create the universe in such a way that it still functioned after his death.

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Would you make the choice to have children if you knew in advance that you would die if you have children?

It makes more sense that if you are going to have children, you would look for the greatest purpose for yourself and also the greatest purpose for the life that you create.
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To what extent could a God love humanity more than he loves himself?

He could understand that humanity is inherently fallible and therefore forgive it at the expense of his desire for justice.

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There is Adolph Hitler.
And it is said that we should love our enemies and even pray for them.

We cannot even ask God to punish our enemies on our behalf, maybe if we are being asked to do this then God is even more forgiving than we give him credit for.

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peace

Eric



Kubulai
why should I assume that?

Don’t assume anything, keep challenging

Peace

Eric

Queen of Swords

Originally posted by Eric H
I am sure that you do sacrifice part of yourself when you love, if it means giving up something of yourself.

Well, in that case, any kind of love requires sacrifice, not just the kind of love that exceeds love of oneself. So, is there any way to differentiate "love that exceeds love of oneself" from "lesser forms of love" besides their definitions?

Again only my thoughts but if you have a hundred pounds and give someone ten pounds, you are making a sacrifice, because you could have kept the whole hundred.

Why is this a sacrifice? Maybe it makes you happy to give people money, so you are actually gaining something from giving them money. Maybe you can write off the ten pounds as a charitable donation on your taxes.

But the way I see it, is that you love yourself more because you keep ninety percent for yourself.

Is this assuming that you don't need the other 90% for food, medicine or shelter?

So it seems that if you love someone more than you love yourself you would need to give at least fifty one percent of what you owned in some way.

So is anything below 50% indicative of an inferior type of love?

Okay but in human terms maybe the only way to own that many lives is if they where your slaves.

And yes they could be set free.

But does God own us?

The Christian god is supposed to have created us and we supposedly remain alive because that is his will. Does God own us? I don't know, how do you define ownership?

If he does not own us how can he set us free? As I understand it we have to willingly choose God.

What happens if we don't willingly choose God?

Would you make the choice to have children if you knew in advance that you would die if you have children?

It depends on how badly I wanted children and what those children would be like. It might be egotistical for me to prevent the conception of (extreme example) the person who discovers the cure for HIV only because I don't want to die.

It makes more sense that if you are going to have children, you would look for the greatest purpose for yourself and also the greatest purpose for the life that you create.

Actually, if I was going to have children, I would expect them to find their own "greatest purpose" when they reached maturity, rather than expecting them to always live by whatever standards I chose.

There is Adolph Hitler.

There is? Where? I don't see him. Is he standing behind someone?

Seriously, though, could you explain what you mean by that?

And it is said that we should love our enemies and even pray for them.

Could you explain the relevance of this?

We cannot even ask God to punish our enemies on our behalf,

Relevance, etc?

maybe if we are being asked to do this then God is even more forgiving than we give him credit for.

I wasn't giving him credit for anything, nor was I asking anyone to do anything in my original reply : "He could understand that humanity is inherently fallible and therefore forgive it at the expense of his desire for justice."

How this relates to Hitler and asking god to punish enemies is anyone's guess.

Queen of Swords

Originally posted by Deadbeat
QoS, you are my favorite person ever.

Why, thank you.

DMB

I note, Eric, that you have not acknowledged my post on probability.