MortalWombat

Actually, it's not as simple as you suggest. Not all animals have a nervous system. For instance, sponges and flatworms don't. But insects and roundworms do. So is it OK to use a sponge while taking a bath and to take medication to get rid of tapeworms, but not OK to kill a mosquito on your arm or take medication to get rid of pinworms or hookworms?

If the ability to feel pain is the only criterion, then would it be OK to engineer a chicken or pig that lacked pain receptors and then use that as a food source?

integral domain

This is where the environmental and health resaons come in respectively.

I don't use sponges because the process of harvesting them is destructive to the environment. If they were farmed sponges, then yes, I'd use them. About hookworms and pinwarms... but even if they did have nervous systems, I believe in self defense... so if the are assulting me the I feel I have to right to kill them... just as I would try to kill a dog biting my arm off.

I wouldn't eat genetically engineered animals for health reasons... I don't want all those hormones and all that cholesterol in my body.

Valmorian

I'm willing to bet you do a lot of things that contribute to the destruction of the environment. I'm not sure why this PARTICULAR one is so much more extreme?




You don't see a difference between these two things? A mosquito obtaining blood and a dog ripping your arm off are the same to you?

I'm not really sure what hormones and cholesterol have to do with GM products. Presumably one would want to use Genetic modification to reduce or eliminate any harmful effects of eating meat..

integral domain

Valmorian... yes, I do do a lot of things that harm the environment... however, I like ot think that I try to not to UNNECESSARY things that hurt the environment. I don't really need to use sponges for anything. Towels work just find.

And yes, I see no difference between a dog and a mosquitto attacking me... well, except that the mosquitto NEEDS to attack me, while the dog is just being a bitch. So I have more sympathy for the mosquito.... but usually it too hard to give swatting something that bites me that much thought before I wack it. It's an impulsive thing that I can't really control.


About animals without nerves... I think that forcing an animals to live without any pain receptors (if that's possible) would be cruel. Pain is there for a reason... if stops animals from doing stupid things like getting too close to a fire.

Look, I think it's wrong ok?! I mean, in the absense of God... what's right and what's wrong all boils down to an opinion anyway. Even the thought that toturing humans is wrong is an opinion at it's root. And this is my opinion... it's better not to kill animals for luxury purposes.

beth

I'm a veggie, but not a vegan. I grew up with cow pastures around me. I used to pet them and feed them. I cannot bear the thought of eating Elsie. My family are all beef eaters, so I do buy beef, but I try to find the beef where the cows are allowed to roam and graze.I do not like slaughtering practices either.

I do eat dairy, but my brother and i were discussing my veggetariansm. Beside his concern that I was turning PITA(I'm not), he told me of the inhumane treatment of the dairy cows. I'm considering switching to soy. But I don't think I could handle fake cheese.

JGL53

Your brother fears you are turning into a sandwich?

beth

That's quite funny! My bad. I meant to say PETA. He dislikes them very much. He had a fit when I told him I was a tree hugger.

Oolon Colluphid

Erm, cotton, or man-made?
But surely the dog is just performing normal wolf behaviour, just as the mosquito is? And I’m not quite sure how transvestite canines have a monopoly on this behaviour...
Unable to rebel against the tyranny of the selfish genes, perhaps?
How so? Cruelty by definition involves inflicting pain or suffering. If they are physiologically incapable of having pain or suffering, then none can be caused. And these hypothetical creatures would not be forced to be that way, they would be like it from conception: they would be designed that way, which is no different from a plant being designed by nature not to feel pain. Unless of course one is a luddite who wants to get out the pitchforks and the firebrands and go up to the castle...
Apart from the fact that even if they did stick their trotters in a fire it would not cause them pain, and apart from you not questioning why such actions might be stupid (surely it’s normally because this would adversely affect survival chances... which aren’t a consideration for these proposed organisms) and so don’t wonder whether it would matter if they did, such organisms would be bred for specific purposes, and so wouldn’t be likely to encounter such situations.

Some people refer to cow as ‘beef on the hoof’. Suppose as well as pain receptors we remove (ie cause not to grow) all but the bare minimum brain to keep them alive and eating (assuming there’s much more than that going on in their heads anyway). Such organisms would then truly be little more than heterotrophic plants. Now, keeping one’s empathetic irrationality under control, can anyone tell me why we couldn’t eat such organisms?
Fine. It’s entirely up to you. But look, if you don’t like having your assumptions questioned, don’t get involved in such discussions, ok?
Nope. If that were the case, a paedophile who saw nothing wrong in screwing five-year-olds could not be convicted: it would just be his opinion. It is society that sets the standards.
Sure... a consensus opinion.
Fine. But since it is not a consensus opinion, please don’t get upset if others don’t feel bound by your morality.

TTFN, DT

integral domain

Who's uspet? I don't really care if you eat meat or not... it's your conscious. I'm more annoyed by your silly legalistic points that don't mean anything and are so trite that I'm not even inspired to respond.

And you're wrong... even the idea the pedophilia is wrong is an opinion at it's root... it is the opinion that we should not harm children. Most people have this opinion, but it's still an opinion. We convict people and lock them in jail based on laws... laws are made based on people's opinions. Furthermore... laws are not intened to be moral instructions... they are only meant to keep peace and protect the innocent not tell us how to live (at least that's what we hope for in "free" societies).

Born Free

I'm a new veggie and very happy to be so