wordsmyth

I think the problem is just a bad case of semantics between "define" and "describe".

De-finev.tr.
1.a. To state the precise meaning of(a word or sense of a word, for example)
b. To describe the nature or basic qualities of; explain

De-scribev.tr.
1. To give an account of in speech or writing
2. To convey an idea or impression of; characterize

I'm just not seeing the difficulty here. <img src="confused.gif" border="0">

Philosoft

This is why I think 'atheism' needs to encompass more than positive deniers. I'm pretty much a non-cognitivist but I consider that an "above and beyond" position. Sometimes I concede the existence of the god-concept simply for convenience but that doesn't change my actual position. I am an atheist either way.

Happy Wonderer

I think one can easily be an athiest without a concept of God. Not to ignite the definition war of athiesm again, but at least one class of athiest could be defined as beliving that "natural causes are sufficient to explain all effects that we observe in the universe."

For such an athiest, all that is necessary to know about God is that she is not a natural cause. (You could call that a definition, but let's not get too far into the meta-definition definition discussion please!) Therefore, she is not believed in. We don't have to know her specific attributes, the entire class of non-natural causes is disbelieved in.

I'd bet that most Christians would have a hard time pinning down the definition of Gaeia (Earth Mother?) However, it is sufficient to know that Gaiea is a spiritual concept that isn't an acronym for "Jesus Christ Our Lord and Savior" for a Christian theist to "disbelieve or deny" her existance. (If Gaeia isn't a good example, consider Chakaras or the Hindu pantheon.)

For an athiest, it is sufficient to know that Gaiea represents a non-natural cause. So both a Christian and an athiest can disbelieve in Gaiea for different reasons, and without even agreeing on a definition of it!

I'll agree that a common definition of God is a good thing to pin down for debate -- it would keep debates from devolving into meta-language arguments that avoid the fundamental questions. I doubt that the God concept can be defined in a way that is acceptable to all theists, however. Worth a try, though!

HW

G B Mayes

Wordsmyth, Philosoft, Happy Wonderer:

Thank you. I have learned something from each of your posts.

-Brent

Philosoft

Well, that's about the best compliment you could offer. You can learn something from me anytime.