Freethought & Rationalism Archive

Corwin · 03-04-2002, 02:25 PM

Besides.... from what we know about the nature of the brain you don't have to get it perfect. Since memory (and apparently personality, which is arguably a function of collective memory...) is holographic, stored with multiple redundant backup copies throughout the brain.... if you miss restoring it in one place, the brian will pull it our of another part. We've already seen this with brain injury cases. (Frequently over time they get a lot back... the brain pulls parts of their personality out of backup made in undamaged areas of the brain.)

crocodile deathroll · 03-06-2002, 03:56 AM

Repairing the membranes, dendrites and synapses of all those trillions of cells! and having them all configured in the correct order. That is a little more "large scale" that an archeoligist putting a broken piece of pottery together. Then there would of course be the cost and that initial charge of Alcor charging 100 grand to freeze your body and about thirty to freeze your head would only be the start. The cost would be exponential. Who is going to pay for it at the other end?. you

Quote:

Originally posted by Ipecac:
 Yes, people thought the same thing about space flight and about almost every other major technological advance when it was speculated about prior to its accomplishment. Communicators! Ridiculous! Laser beams, Pure fantasy!

The fact remains that computers continue to advance and at some point it will not be impossible for a computer to scan a vitrified or even a frozen brain and determine what its pre frozen state was.

Archeologists do this now on a small scale with pieces of artifacts. Geologists do this with contenental drift, etc...

Cac!

Corwin · 03-06-2002, 07:52 AM

You DO keep up with this technology, don't you? Nanotech? Remember? Molecular precision? This kind of repair/build/rebuild was in fact more or less the entire POINT of nanotechnology?

crocodile deathroll · 03-08-2002, 01:42 PM

Would you classify yourself as a "cadaver rights activist"

Quote:

Originally posted by Corwin:
You DO keep up with this technology, don't you? Nanotech? Remember? Molecular precision? This kind of repair/build/rebuild was in fact more or less the entire POINT of nanotechnology?

There are many science fiction fads out there, the one that is becoming increasingly popular is cloning. A Raelian back group are planning to have themselves clones and all the information an memories in there brains reinstallel like a kind of software program into the new cloned copy of themselves. The trouble is you have to back up that information before you die because then it will be destroyed by either the freezing or decaying process, and then it would be too late.

crocodile deathroll

Corwin · 03-08-2002, 01:51 PM

Ah... so now you want to lump us together with the Raelians? No ad hominems here or anything.

There's no cloning or any such tech involved. (Although cloned organs might be easier to use than rebuilding existing organs.... tough to say for sure at this point...) And uploading isn't even related to this. It isn't required. The basic brain structure is still there.

crocodile deathroll · 03-09-2002, 02:33 PM

The brain structure is not there when you realize the damage the freezing process does to dendrites and synapses. The brain structure and its inherent memories have gone forever, and as such you will totally oblivious to any inkling that you have ever been born in the first place. With the memory of that brain totally obliterated you will have no more affinity with that brain than the brain of a stranger's cadaver.

Quote:

Originally posted by Corwin:
Ah... so now you want to lump us together with the Raelians? No ad hominems here or anything.

There's no cloning or any such tech involved. (Although cloned organs might be easier to use than rebuilding existing organs.... tough to say for sure at this point...) And uploading isn't even related to this. It isn't required. The basic brain structure is still there.

tronvillain · 03-09-2002, 03:32 PM

crocodile deathtroll:

Quote:

The brain structure is not there when you realize the damage the freezing process does to dendrites and synapses. The brain structure and its inherent memories have gone forever, and as such you will totally oblivious to any inkling that you have ever been born in the first place. With the memory of that brain totally obliterated you will have no more affinity with that brain than the brain of a stranger's cadaver.

Those who try cryonics are hoping that this isn't the case - that it will be possible to recover the information despite the damage.

crocodile deathroll · 03-10-2002, 05:59 PM

Those who bank on cryonics would be better off gambling their $30,000 to freeze thier heads or $100,000 for a full body freeze at Las Vegas than a have it fleased off them by those snake oil salesman at Alcor. The odds winning at even the shonkiest casino at Las Vegas would be much better

Quote:

Originally posted by tronvillain:
crocodile deathtroll:

Those who try cryonics are hoping that this isn't the case - that it will be possible to recover the information despite the damage.

Corwin · 03-11-2002, 03:49 PM

Yes, it's so much better to gamble in a city owned by the Mafia than to invest in an established scientific doctrine, with theory and practice to back it up. Makes so much sense.

What's the matter croc? Are you afraid it will work and your little vision of a 'soul' will be proven wrong?

Viti · 03-11-2002, 06:22 PM

Excuse me...Las Vegas is no longer owned or run by the Mafia. This is corporate America at its best now baby. Just wanted to point that out.

Now, if someone wants to spend their hard earned money freezing themselves because it gives them hope....go for it.

I need to do more research, but would like to ask a few questions

Do we really have the freezing process down enough to not cause irreparable cell damage?

Are free radicals effectively stopped, or simply slowed during freezing?

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03-04-2002, 02:25 PM	#31
Corwin Veteran Member Join Date: Jan 2002 Posts: 4,369	Besides.... from what we know about the nature of the brain you don't have to get it perfect. Since memory (and apparently personality, which is arguably a function of collective memory...) is holographic, stored with multiple redundant backup copies throughout the brain.... if you miss restoring it in one place, the brian will pull it our of another part. We've already seen this with brain injury cases. (Frequently over time they get a lot back... the brain pulls parts of their personality out of backup made in undamaged areas of the brain.)

03-06-2002, 07:52 AM	#33
Corwin Veteran Member Join Date: Jan 2002 Posts: 4,369	You DO keep up with this technology, don't you? Nanotech? Remember? Molecular precision? This kind of repair/build/rebuild was in fact more or less the entire POINT of nanotechnology?

03-08-2002, 01:51 PM	#35
Corwin Veteran Member Join Date: Jan 2002 Posts: 4,369	Ah... so now you want to lump us together with the Raelians? No ad hominems here or anything. There's no cloning or any such tech involved. (Although cloned organs might be easier to use than rebuilding existing organs.... tough to say for sure at this point...) And uploading isn't even related to this. It isn't required. The basic brain structure is still there.

03-11-2002, 03:49 PM	#39
Corwin Veteran Member Join Date: Jan 2002 Posts: 4,369	Yes, it's so much better to gamble in a city owned by the Mafia than to invest in an established scientific doctrine, with theory and practice to back it up. Makes so much sense. What's the matter croc? Are you afraid it will work and your little vision of a 'soul' will be proven wrong?

03-11-2002, 06:22 PM	#40
Viti Contributor Join Date: Apr 2001 Location: Down South Posts: 12,879	Excuse me...Las Vegas is no longer owned or run by the Mafia. This is corporate America at its best now baby. Just wanted to point that out. Now, if someone wants to spend their hard earned money freezing themselves because it gives them hope....go for it. I need to do more research, but would like to ask a few questions Do we really have the freezing process down enough to not cause irreparable cell damage? Are free radicals effectively stopped, or simply slowed during freezing?

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