spurly

Hey TW:

Thanks for pointing this out to me and giving me a chance to clarify. You are correct. Being tempted does not separate one from God. All of us are tempted in many ways. However acting on temptation and sinning (i.e. doing things that do not line up with the nature of character of God) does separate us from God.

Kevin

Bree

So, Kevin, why is the temptation of homosexual sex so much worse than the temptation of heterosexual sex? It's because God cares so much about what part goes where, right? Or is it because He wants us to have more babies? I forget...

Illithid

That's easy. You hang out with gay people. You hit on motss. As you sit studying on a bench on campus, your eyes are irresistably drawn to the guys playing "beach" volleyball across the way, or the butt of the jogger in the short shorts. You post rebuttals to 'phobes on the net. You go to the Front Porch Cafe on Thursdays (Lesbian acoustic night) and scandalize some poor straight guy who's there with the wifey by having your arm around another guy... then notice him staring and stare back until he looks away. You join the campus GLSS group and go to the human sexuality class to tell 500 strangers what it's like to be gay. You get pissed that you can't bring your boyfriend to Christmas at Grandma's house (but at least the parents are okay.... rendering me more fortunate than most). You wear a pretty dangly earring in your right ear, and a button on your backpack that says "I like boys!", and sometimes a shirt that says "No one knows I'm gay". You endure guys in the dorm who shout "Faggot!" at you, and once you get to run from a truckfull of Corps guys (Texas A&M ROTC, if you didn't know) after they hit you in the head with a thrown beer bottle because you were holding hands with another guy while walking down a street at night. And you have friendly conversations with straights who never knew a gay person before, and maybe you give some terrified closet case some courage.

There. That, I submit, is a gay lifestyle. There are others, to be sure, but I think it boils down to "not pretending to be straight". That's the sin, isn't it?

Treacle Worshipper

Wow. :notworthy
Great post, Illithid.

It would certainly appear to be so. As long as you "pass" as straight, nobody's going to bother you.

(It was interesting for me when I came out to Xian friends I made at uni & watching them compute that, not only am I bi, I had been bi the entire time that they knew me. You could see the cogs going round. )
TW

MrDarwin

Of course, an "intelligent design" proponent might ask why it seems designed to fit so well, and feel sooo good...

//riot of disorder::

No & no, I would never contemplate becoming "friends" with one. They physically repel me. In any case, given that I believe all unrepentant homosexuals over 21 ought to be executed , they are hardly likely to want to be friends with me.

Such hate! Such violence! Damn that Christian rap music! </The Simpsons

So Old Man, you think that me, being a 13 year old homosexual, should have my basic human rights taken away from me just because I love people of the same sex? That's some real fucked up thinking there, worthy of a Golden o_O award

You do know there are homosexual relationships in the bible?

http://www.religioustolerance.org/hom_bmar.htm

Enjoy!

happyboy

first off, it makes me VERY proud to see the gay posters here at II come together to rip apart asinine beliefs about our "lifestyle" (whatever the hell that is). it's nice to know there are so many gay folk here; i feel a lot better after reading this thread, ironically, enough.

old man, i am a gay man. for years i hated myself for my sexuality, and beat myself up whenever i got the chance. but then i met my best friend, and she opened my eyes to how hateful the christian faith is. after the deprogramming she did for me, i met a good man that i love dearly, and who i hope to live the rest of my life with. i don't desire to go around fucking every man i meet, or performing outlandish sexual acts that boggle the mind: i just want to be with this man, and feel his love for me! he makes me feel good, he makes me feel complete. i love him with all my heart!

you need to realize that not all gays are sexual carnivores out looking for a good fuck and nothing else. i, like many gay men, do not want a cheap fuck 99% of the time. i want love, i want tenderness, and i want my sexual encounters to mean something! random fucking does not interest me; making sweet tender love to the man i adore does appeal.

happyboy, glad he's spoken his mind to ignorant fundies

Lasher

Being gay doesn't have it's own lifestyle, except for the one society was nice enough to give us, only we don't know what we are supposed to do with it, I just live.

What seperates 'us' from heterosexuals is sexual orientation.

And as opposed to making 90 more posts to respond to everything else, lol


What Is Sexual Orientation?

Sexual Orientation is an enduring emotional, romantic, sexual or affectional attraction to another person. It is easily distinguished from other components of sexuality including biological sex, gender identity (the psychological sense of being male or female) and the social gender role (adherence to cultural norms for feminine and masculine behavior).

Sexual orientation exists along a continuum that ranges from exclusive homosexuality to exclusive heterosexuality and includes various forms of bisexuality. Bisexual persons can experience sexual, emotional and affectional attraction to both their own sex and the opposite sex. Persons with a homosexual orientation are sometimes referred to as gay (both men and women) or as lesbian (women only).

Sexual orientation is different from sexual behavior because it refers to feelings and self-concept. Persons may or may not express their sexual orientation in their behaviors.

What Causes a Person To Have a Particular Sexual Orientation?

There are numerous theories about the origins of a person's sexual orientation; most scientists today agree that sexual orientation is most likely the result of a complex interaction of environmental, cognitive and biological factors. In most people, sexual orientation is shaped at an early age. There is also considerable recent evidence to suggest that biology, including genetic or inborn hormonal factors, play a significant role in a person's sexuality. In summary, it is important to recognize that there are probably many reasons for a person's sexual orientation and the reasons may be different for different people.



Is Sexual Orientation a Choice?

No, human beings can not choose to be either gay or straight. Sexual orientation emerges for most people in early adolescence without any prior sexual experience. Although we can choose whether to act on our feelings, psychologists do not consider sexual orientation to be a conscious choice that can be voluntarily changed.


Can Therapy Change Sexual Orientation?

No. Even though most homosexuals live successful, happy lives, some homosexual or bisexual people may seek to change their sexual orientation through therapy, sometimes pressured by the influence of family members or religious groups to try and do so. The reality is that homosexuality is not an illness. It does not require treatment and is not changeable.

However, not all gay, lesbian, and bisexual people who seek assistance from a mental health professional want to change their sexual orientation. Gay, lesbian, and bisexual people may seek psychological help with the coming out process or for strategies to deal with prejudice, but most go into therapy for the same reasons and life issues that bring straight people to mental health professionals.

What About So-Called "Conversion Therapies"?

Some therapists who undertake so-called conversion therapy report that they have been able to change their clients' sexual orientation from homosexual to heterosexual. Close scrutiny of these reports however show several factors that cast doubt on their claims. For example, many of the claims come from organizations with an ideological perspective which condemns homosexuality. Furthermore, their claims are poorly documented. For example, treatment outcome is not followed and reported overtime as would be the standard to test the validity of any mental health intervention.

The American Psychological Association is concerned about such therapies and their potential harm to patients. In 1997, the Association's Council of Representatives passed a resolution reaffirming psychology's opposition to homophobia in treatment and spelling out a client's right to unbiased treatment and self-determination. Any person who enters into therapy to deal with issues of sexual orientation has a right to expect that such therapy would take place in a professionally neutral environment absent of any social bias.

Is Homosexuality a Mental Illness or Emotional Problem?

No. Psychologists, psychiatrists and other mental health professionals agree that homosexuality is not an illness, mental disorder or an emotional problem. Over 35 years of objective, well-designed scientific research has shown that homosexuality, in and itself,is not associated with mental disorders or emotional or social problems. Homosexuality was once thought to be a mental illness because mental health professionals and society had biased information. In the past the studies of gay, lesbian and bisexual people involved only those in therapy, thus biasing the resulting conclusions. When researchers examined data about these people who were not in therapy, the idea that homosexuality was a mental illness was quickly found to be untrue.

In 1973 the American Psychiatric Association confirmed the importance of the new, better designed research and removed homosexuality from the official manual that lists mental and emotional disorders. Two years later, the American Psychological Association passed a resolution supporting the removal. For more than 25 years, both associations have urged all mental health professionals to help dispel the stigma of mental illness that some people still associate with homosexual orientation.


http://www.apa.org/

Salmon of Doubt

Wow. Sorry for not participating in this discussion more, I've been swamped with work recently. I agree with happyboy- it's great to see all the gay posters rally round

But what a surprise. I had no idea that there was actually someone posting on this board who wishes to kill me! And I have to say, not ONE person I know guessed I was gay before I told them. Even the Christian ones.

I'm still young- I haven't had a gay sexual experience yet, but apparently my desire for one dooms me to hell anyway. And people still believe that homosexuality is a choice, despite the evidence.

Spurly seems to be the only Christian here preaching love, and that is appreciated, but spurly- do you not see that homosexuality is not a choice? Given how hard it is for me to find a girlfriend, I'd love to be straight, even if there were no other motivational factors to be straight! (BTW, I am desperate and searching- any university age girls living in South Wales around here? )

I can, however, choose not to be a murderer, or a thief, or a bigot. So I'm not. The 'Choice' that you say we were given by God doesn't seem much of a choice- be straight (impossible), or be celibate (cruel), or burn in hell (oh, nice and loving).

I'm sure you can see that your message of love, (while infinitely better than Old Man's message of hate,) still seems a little hollow. I think you will find that it won't persuade any happy gay person to believe in your God.

happyboy

old man did something good by spouting off his close-minded hate: he proved to me that i wasn't alone on these boards. thanks, old man!

a very happy happyboy