winstonjen

Hey! Stop pre-empting Magus' responses! He'll have nothing left to say at this rate!

Magus55

No, nobody says this world is fair. It isn't at all - you never know when your time is up. That is why God told us not to wait around, procrastinating to the make the choice. If you spend 20 years rejecting God, ignoring all the pushes to find Him ( and God does try to bring everyone too him - people just tend to ignore him and call things coincidence or all in your head), then it is your fault for waiting around. If you suddenly die at the end of those 20 years, its your fault for wasting all that time rejecting God.

Since you do not know how much time you have, and you could die tomorrow - you better make sure you know for a 100% undisputable, undeniable fact that God does not and cannot exist before rejecting Him completely.

winstonjen

Shouldn't your god take some responsiblity for cutting their lives short?

1. Which god?

2. How do we know it is 'your god'?

Magus55

No since in most cases, He isn't the one that does it - sin and humanity are the most common reasons for someones life to end early.



Thats your job to find out and seek. We already found the answer to those questions - have you?

winstonjen

Except that he would be guilty by omission. QED

Wow, everyone! Magus is really the smartest person alive - he just didn't want us to know it! He has decided upon which god is true, using his limited knowledge! Praise!

Rhaedas

Only one life too, no afterlife...

He does a good job with his signs, doesn't he...so subtle, one could say they almost...don't exist.

I love Pascal's Wager...really...but only those who refuse to think can win at it. One shred of doubt, whether it be from a 20 year old who dies still learning about various religions, or an 80 year old who has learned something that casts a slight doubt on his mind right before he has a heart attack. Either god is flexible or strict on the whole belief/faith thing, and if he's that strict, only the gullible humans are getting in.

Why worry about a god, when you can exist here on earth and live a wholesome life, worthy of the better teachings of the bible and other morality writings, and if there's a god that's just and fair, you'll be rewarded for your actions. If there's a god that cares only of worship above actions, then he doesn't deserve worship at all.

And of course, if there's no gods at all, then at least you had a worthwhile existence here, and those you touched are better for your living.

Magus55

Who says someone is guilty by omission? By what standard is that based on? Because you state it as being so? God chose to uphold our free will, and therefore has to let the consequences of our disobeyal play themselves out. That isn't guilty by omission, thats holding us responsible for our actions, and not being a magic genie who fixes every little problem we cause.

Magus55

Says who?



They are there if you look. Its your problem for ignoring them. Christians see them all the time. Maybe because we don't have the preconceived notion that God can't exist, and science has all the answers, so no matter what signs are given to you, you don't bother with them since God can't exist, therefore the signs can't be real. Its just all in your head right?....




Because God is more important to us than anything else imaginable. I'd rather live a horrible, unfulfilled life than ever give up on God ( and i'm basically at this stage). God offers things the world never can. And how can you consider this world wholesome and enjoyable? Sure there are good things, but turning on the news and seeing a 6 year old murdered every day, or the latest outbreak of a disease that takes the life of millions, or people degrading themselves with pornography, or people being greedy and hording millions of dollars to buy the best things available, when millions of children are starving in the world, and instead of buying that new flashy diamond bracelet that costs 50,000 dollars, you could keep a homeless man from starving to death, or suffering in the cold.

You think this world is wholesome? You have blinders on then. This world is a disgrace.


You will be rewarded for your actions, but your actions can't save you from sin. There is a difference between salvation, and good deeds. One gets your foot in the door (salvation), the other comes only if you if you achieve the first(deeds). You seem to think you are capable of doing enough good works to reach perfection. Tell me something, do you think you will ever be able to be perfect? Then how can a lifetime of deeds, ever meet perfect standards? Its arrogant to assume donating 100 bucks to a local charity is enough to erase a lifetime of disobeyal, rejection, and sinning against an infinite, perfect God.

Adultery, lying, cheating, stealing, hate, greed, envy, lust etc. etc. etc. may be acceptable standards for society - as long as you don't murder someone, or blow up a building - but they are an infinitely far cry from God's standards.

Maybe you had a worthwhile existence. The majority of the world doesn't and never will. And for me, worshipping God is worthwhile. And yes, helping others is very important, but so is bringing them to God. What can you possibly offer to someone on this Earth, greater than showing them the way to salvation, and eternity in Heaven? All the riches and happiness on Earth combined can never equal a fraction of the bliss of Heaven and eternity surrounded by the love of God.

winstonjen

If you see a toddler drowning in a bathtub, and you stand by and do nothing, are you responsible or not?

It's DISOBEDIENCE

So when Jesus said, "Ask, and it shall be given," he was lying?

You just need to drink disinfectant before the signs will come, right?

Instead of preaching to deaf ears, you could be doing those things too.

Rhaedas

Well, I cannot disprove something, but until I see some evidence of existence after death, it's meaningless...

Typical assumption...can't see them, must not be looking. Convenient, but wrong.

You see what you want to see. Nothing unusal about that. Have enough faith, and people see all sorts of things, regardless of the reality of it.

Why would you not try to live the best life you can? Not a self-fulfilling, immoral life, that's not at all what I'm referring to...a life that means something to those around you as well as yourself.

So discarding this world as hopeless and trash is a good thing? "Screw it, I''m going to heaven, because I believe, and the rest of you will burn if you don't believe the same". This isn't selfishness? Honestly, if there is a god, and he lets in those who believed for the sole reason they wanted heaven...they can have it. Egocentric to the fullest. Humanism is about the opposite, caring about the others around you, and society in general. I can't beleiev that's not a good purpose, better than spreading some 2000 year old message to discard this material world.

This world has potential, but as long as everyone bickers about who is right and wrong, usually (not always but mostly) religion based.


Never claimed perfection...only claimed I care enough to try and help. <shrug>

That's what us atheists are known for, isn't it. We're the problem with the world...no christians do that sorts of thing.

Whatever...when I said I had a worthwhile existence, I meant in the aspect of being able to make a difference, so my children and theirs could have a better world. Why is that so wrong, just because I can't force myself to believe what you do?

If your god exists, he made me this way, so why question it?