Freethought & Rationalism Archive

ps418 · 11-08-2002, 03:57 PM

Still waiting. . .

Quote:

Originally posted by Vanderzyden:
The real world is corrupted , not poorly designed.

Quote:

Ps418: Interesting. Please explain what evidence this explanation of yours is based upon. What do you mean by corrupted? When was the world not corrupted? How did it get corrupted?

Bubba · 11-08-2002, 04:52 PM

Patrick-

Here's the problem for creationists. If they admit the universe/world are young, then the fall can be the cause of corruption. But then all kinds of nasty things happen when you bring evidence to the table, because it is super easy to prove the world old. Prove the world old and what's it corrupted by?

Bubba <img src="graemlins/banghead.gif" border="0" alt="[Bang Head]" /> <img src="graemlins/banghead.gif" border="0" alt="[Bang Head]" />

Bible Humper · 11-08-2002, 06:32 PM

Quote:

The real world is corrupted, not poorly designed.

Impossible. The deity had to plan it out so that it could appear to have all happened without him. Did you forget about the free will argument?

If these "sub-optimal designs" were just random expressions of corruption, they would not all "luckily" be perfectly consistent with the theory of evolution. The fact that all of these "sub-optimal designs" appear to confirm evolution is just Yahweh's way to allow us free will to believe in him or not!

You are basically railroaded into this defense, far more damning than anything that is merely imperfect are obvious pieces of evidence for evolution such as genes for hen's teeth. You might as well just use the free will argument for this problem since you already had to swallow that pill for other issues, just tell everyone that the animals and people were created with hidden clues for evolution so that we wouldn't be able to say "Well, there must be a deity since life could have came to be no other way!" because this ruins Yahweh's game!

Did you think that you and your pals outsmarted the deity and found actual evidence for his existence he forgot about? Pfah!

Quote:

<a href="http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?cmd=Retrieve&db=PubMed&list_uids=637356 0&dopt=Abstract" target="_blank">Human tails and pseudotails.</a>

But Scigirl, I already heard the excuse for this one from Douglas Bender in an older thread. I remember it clearly because I nearly pissed myself laughing when I saw it.

He said that the tailbone is "just perfect" as somewhere for our ass to be attached to so that it could be upright as it is. I'm not making this up, ROFLMAO.

Garbles18 · 11-09-2002, 12:09 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by peteyh:
<strong>
I'm a computer programmer, so I'll give you an example from that: I need to build a web site so managers can look at their employees information. I can whip something like this off in a day and have it up and running and the managers will be able to do just that. On the other hand, I can take longer to do it and plan out in advance how the site will be set up and handle all the data and user interaction. That would give the site with more functionality and have it run faster and be more stable. Both work, but the second works better because it was planned out in advance.
</strong>

I would like to also point out that you are not all-knowing and you don't have infinite resources, so it is even more understandable for you to deliver a sub-optimal program. Whereas, a god that was all-knowing and had infinite resources can reasonably be expected to do it right the first time.

scigirl · 11-09-2002, 07:12 AM

But the bigger, more important question is, did God program us with a Mac or a PC??

scigirl

Bible Humper · 11-09-2002, 09:40 AM

Oh wow, I can't believe you remember that!

I said that way back when David Mathews was at the peak of his participation, I had to stop and think about it for a sec to recall myself.

No wonder you're on your way to a Ph.D. <img src="graemlins/notworthy.gif" border="0" alt="[Not Worthy]" />

Albion · 11-09-2002, 10:01 AM

Scigirl, are you suggesting God might have used a Mac? God couldn't possibly be Californian!

pz · 11-09-2002, 10:24 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by scigirl:
<strong>But the bigger, more important question is, did God program us with a Mac or a PC?? </strong>

Since Bill Gates is Satan, isn't the answer obvious?

Bible Humper · 11-09-2002, 11:09 AM

The question of whether God uses a Mac or PC came about when David Mathews' wriggling resulted in the standard solipsistic Xianity.

I was challenging him to explain why he doesn't give B.I.A.Lism(Brain In A Laboratoryism) equal consideration since it has even more going for it than his theology.

He started trying to steal away from the question like a thief in the night!

I remember saying something about it being as ridiculous for him to discuss characteristics of his solipsistic deity as it is for me to discuss whether the God/Administrators use a Mac or PC.

scigirl · 11-09-2002, 12:49 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Bible Humper:
No wonder you're on your way to a Ph.D.

Heh just a quick clarification - MD not PhD.

I must say though - people trying to get MDs and PhD's at the same time - ARE GODS AND GODDESSES.

There I said it. I guess I'm not an atheist after all.

Sorry for the diversion - back to "Sub-optimal design"

scigirl

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11-08-2002, 04:52 PM	#22
Bubba Veteran Member Join Date: Mar 2001 Location: Orient, OH USA Posts: 1,501	Patrick- Here's the problem for creationists. If they admit the universe/world are young, then the fall can be the cause of corruption. But then all kinds of nasty things happen when you bring evidence to the table, because it is super easy to prove the world old. Prove the world old and what's it corrupted by? Bubba <img src="graemlins/banghead.gif" border="0" alt="[Bang Head]" /> <img src="graemlins/banghead.gif" border="0" alt="[Bang Head]" />

11-09-2002, 07:12 AM	#25
scigirl Veteran Member Join Date: Jul 2001 Location: Seattle Posts: 4,261	But the bigger, more important question is, did God program us with a Mac or a PC?? scigirl

11-09-2002, 09:40 AM	#26
Bible Humper Veteran Member Join Date: May 2002 Location: Ontario, Canada Posts: 1,125	Oh wow, I can't believe you remember that! I said that way back when David Mathews was at the peak of his participation, I had to stop and think about it for a sec to recall myself. No wonder you're on your way to a Ph.D. <img src="graemlins/notworthy.gif" border="0" alt="[Not Worthy]" />

11-09-2002, 10:01 AM	#27
Albion Veteran Member Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: US east coast. And www.theroyalforums.com Posts: 2,829	Scigirl, are you suggesting God might have used a Mac? God couldn't possibly be Californian!

11-09-2002, 11:09 AM	#29
Bible Humper Veteran Member Join Date: May 2002 Location: Ontario, Canada Posts: 1,125	The question of whether God uses a Mac or PC came about when David Mathews' wriggling resulted in the standard solipsistic Xianity. I was challenging him to explain why he doesn't give B.I.A.Lism(Brain In A Laboratoryism) equal consideration since it has even more going for it than his theology. He started trying to steal away from the question like a thief in the night! I remember saying something about it being as ridiculous for him to discuss characteristics of his solipsistic deity as it is for me to discuss whether the God/Administrators use a Mac or PC.

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