Rusting Car Bumper

Can I make sure I am reading this correctly?

You are saying that you thought (previously) that you had to believe in evolution to be an atheist but now you realize that you don't? Am I understanding that correctly?

If my understanding of your comment is correct then I congratulate you on coming to that understanding.

DC

Debbie T

Blonde Goddess, Once you leave your religion you will start realizing that many things you were taught as a Christian is not true. Those moments for me made me angry when I found out all the lies. As you seek the truth it will sometimes astound you. Just be sure to take it easy on yourself and if you are married to a believer it may be even more difficult transition.

You don't have to believe anything when you leave Christianity. Learn to question everything, have a healthy skepticism. As you reprogram yourself not to take what others tell you as the truth or what one book says is truth you realize how much programming you had as a Christian. The epiphany happens when you realize this.

Good luck to you.

Amos

Hello blondgoddess, let me suggest that you put your personal troubles aside for now and take good care of your husband.

Stephen T-B

The other thing, Blondegoddess, is that if you do slide our of your beliefs, don’t think you’ve got to make an issue of it.
You don’t need to confront anyone with what’s going on in your mind.
I used to feel uncomfortable about going to church when I no longer believed, and although I was probably being hypocritical, I think there are worse crimes against humanity than that.
I saw no need to upset all my family by
a) declaring, in effect, that I thought they were all quite mad; or
b) making them certain I was destined for hell.
It just seemed pointless, so I went along with them to church and mouthed the prayers (in the end I couldn’t even do that) and sang the hymns (in the end I couldn’t do that,) and took Communion (in the end I couldn’t do that either, but by then it was pretty clear that I wasn’t a True Believer and I think this posirtion was accepted, albeit with reluctance and sadness.)
My guess is that over the centuries there have been thousands upon thousands of regular church-goers who have thought, as they’ve lustily sung the hymns and recited the prayers and taken Communion “What AM I doing?” And they’ve gone on doing it because of social pressure, and not wanting to jeopardise their stutus in society and the respect with which they were held.
In the UK, all that’s gone and it is easy to “come out” as an atheist - it's the Believers who seem odd.
In the States I expect it’s the other way around. I’d just say, don’t turn this into a major battle; think what you want to think in the privacy of your own brain and enjoy the liberation there. That’s what matters.
Best wishes.
S.T-B

Gary Welsh

Don't get depressed. Don't buy into that "If God doesn't exist, then life has no meaning!" nonsense. I am so sick of hearing that, it isn't funny.

But I think if people hear something enough, they may start to believe it. And so when someone (like you) begins to doubt the existence of God, they naturally feel a little depressed about it, and (often unconsciously) conclude also that life can have no meaning. That's like saying exchanging gifts on Christmas is meaningless if Santa doesn't exist.

I remember being a little depressed when I realized Santa didn't exist. It was a nice belief, and somehow comforting. I didn't want to give it up. But at some point, I just couldn't believe it anymore -- not because I didn't want to, but because I was unable to.

Hey, if you find something implausible, you find it implausible. What more can you say?

beth

I did. I gave him a deep massage and knocked him out. But thank you for your concern.

beyelzu

blondegoddess,

i do hope that eveything is ok with your husband. and i agree with the other posters who have said that darwin isnt necessary for atheism, or that its impossible to believe in both christianity and evolution.

beyelzu

ps.

i hope you find ii to be a warm and friendly place. i certainly have.

Amergin

Amos posted:

"Hello blondegoddess and please feel welcome in our discussion.

If you are a Christian with doubts what happened to the "I'll never leave you not forsake you?" Could it be true that you never were a Christian and you were just fooling yourself? Would this not mean that you are the problem instead of God?"

There are many different people who call themselves Christian. Some are merely nominal with superficial but never thoughtfully examined beliefs, some who are Christian because Ma and Da are Christian, some really believe in the Christian dogma of their sect and are devout in carrying out the rituals.

I was baptised Catholic. My mother was a Roman Catholic, but my father was atheist-agnostic (who would not discuss religion with me until I passed age 18). That was because he had to promise the Church that he would allow me to be "raised" in the Church.

I went to an Irish-Catholic parochial school taught by Irish nuns. The "catechism" was the outline of dogma for our beliefs. At school we had selected gospel stories that included the Annunciation, Nativity of Jesus, The ministry of Jesus, the passion, the arrest and crucifixion, death and resurrection, and ascention into heaven of Jesus. All standard dogma. We were of course also taught Genesis 1, Genesis 7-8, but more or less skipped over the nasty parts of Exodus, Deuteronomy, I-II Samuel, Judges, I-II Chronicles, Joshua, Hosea, Isaiah, Ezekiel that dealt with atrocities and baby killing.

In grade 1, I really didn't think too much about it. Only superficial stuff was presented "God loves us" "Jesus Redeemed us from Original Sin." In grade 2, I heard the story of Genesis 1. In my 6 year old mind, it seemed a bit warped, unjust. Why would we be punished for something we had no part in doing? Why punished so horribly as burning in Hell?

When I heard of Noah's Flood, I didn't know enough to question the amount of water necessary, or the impossibility of getting fresh water fish in the Amazon basin to Mesopotamia and back again. That came later. But my immediate reaction to seeing the cartoon of elephants walking side by side up the ganplank, then everyone else drowned in the whole world. I immediately was shocked that God would drown jillions of babies.

I heard the story of Jesus. While sympathisiing with Jesus, I felt that his death was unnecesary. Why did God require a bloody sacrifice for a single sin of disobedience? He was God, wasn't he. He could simply have forgiven mankind and not abused his son so horribly. The significance of death and resurrection all seemed overkill. The whole episode seemed so unnecessary. My Da and Ma would forgive me when I stole a cookie or got into a fight at school. I was never even spanked. Da simply shamed me for my bad behaviour. He said, doing "good" is what made society work. I felt shame and didn't need to be burned in hell for stealing a cookie.

By grade 8, I was reading the rest of the Bible including the forbidden parts. I read of God ordering Israelites to kill innocent civilians including children and babies, smashing their head on rocks. I concluded that the Christian god was either a demon or a false God. I concluded that YHWH was fictitious. So I was a Christian Atheist. I began to see that none of the gods really made sense, our old pagan gods were nicer but no more plausible. So I became an agnostic regarding gods in general, and an atheist on Christianity. The Christian God can't exist.

My destiny took me into a science career. I learned about evolution, and later the Big Bang, the age of the earth, plate tectonics and I saw that god(s) are (were) unnecessary to explain reality.

So, was I ever really a Christian? I don't think so. I was nominally an Irish-Catholic. Today I am a cultural Irish Catholic much like Atheistic Jews are still Jews. I am a Catholic who is Atheistic regarding YHWH/Trinity, and otherwise Agnostic but by culture I am catholic. I appreciate the beautiy of the ancient abbeys, the old Gaelic choral hymns, religious art. But I don't think that my beliefs were ever more than superficial and once thought through they were rejected.

Amergin

Amergin

First: blondegoddess, I add my hopes to the rest of the group that your husband does well. I can't say my prayers are with him but my sincere hopes are.

Second: Is it necessary to accept evolution to be an atheist, and is it possible for one to be Christian and Atheist?

The study of evolution does not address God in any way. It deals with biological mechanisms to explain the fact that new species have appeared while others have disappeared repeatedly over the last 2 ½ billion years. Acceptance of the fact of evolution in no way prohibits one from also believing in a God or creator.

Likewise the acceptance of the spherical Earth, the Solar System, gravity, and plate tectonics does not prohibit God belief or Theism. The Pope, an unchallenged theist, allows Catholics to accept the fact of evolution.

There is a point of conflict between traditional Christianity and the fact of evolution. Evolution shows that humans evolved gradually over some 3 million years. There was no Adam and Eve. Without Adam and Eve there was no Original Sin, no fall of mankind.

Without the fall of mankind there was no need for a redeemer. God had no need to father a human offspring to be a blood sacrifice for a sin that never occurred. It follows that there was no crucifixion of Jesus, and no resurrection. There would be no salvation or need for salvation. While I concede that evolution is compatible with theism in a very generic sense (a creator-designer god), it may be incompatible with traditional Christianity.

To accept the mass of compelling evidence proving evolution may threaten traditional Christians by making their core belief system illogical and irrelevant. This is perhaps the real reason for their angry opposition to modern biological and geological discoveries, like evolution and continental drift. By Traditonal Christianity I really mean "Fundamentalism."

Evolution is incompatible with Fundamentalism (Christian or Islamic).

Amergin