Freethought & Rationalism Archive

lunachick · 05-26-2003, 07:09 PM

A few years ago, NZ lower the legal drinking age from 21 to 18 in bars, and for people to buy liquor.

There will always be underage drinkers. When the age is 21, the underage drinkers are around 18 and up - in the pubs, and buying their own booze, anyway.

Whe the age was lowered, younger ages are getting away with buying alcohol and going to the pub.

The NZ experience of this has been an increase in problem drinking with younger people, more unwanted pregnancies with younger people, more STD's, more road deaths - typically, the drunk driver will kill an innocent or two - and more hospital admissions due to the health effects of young binge drinkers harming their liver, kidneys and brain; and generally poisoning themselves during the course of a night.

It is pretty much proven that the younger people start to drink excessively, the worse off they will be later. As they grow into more adult alcoholics, the effects on their partners, children, etc, is devastating. Many are also unable to service debts, as the piss all their money up the wall.

The cost to the state in all this is millions.

Who benefits? The kids think they do - at least in the early days of the "fun". But in the end, they don't. The only ones to benefit are the bloated liquor companies, and they know where their bread is buttered - get 'em young (hence slick marketing to the young), and you have 'em for life. Money, money, money, money!

As with a great many things, Jake, there is MUCH more to the issue than meets the eye.

And don't get me wrong - I used to go pretty hard out when I was younger, and still do occassionally now. But that's beside the point.

You know I think is funny, though - you think you have a freer mind somehow - a more open mind - than those of us with both experience AND open minds. Ahhh, the arrogance of youth - so narrow in their understanding, many of them - small in their worlds and their minds - yet just can't see it. *chuckle*

keyser_soze · 05-26-2003, 07:11 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by JakeJohnson
You are still missing the point here. It WOULD be tragic if I lost a loved one due to some alcohol related incident. Just as it would be tragic if I lost a loved one to a regular car crash. I take the stance that tragedies WILL happen, in some fashion. So, I hope the laws would minimize these tragedies without infringing upon too many of our freedoms. I again ask you, why not outlaw driving?
Jake

Because we REQUIRE the ability to move from one place to another. We only WANT to drink. Would our country, our society function without travel? Would it survive if the drinking age WASN'T raised from 18 to 21? You still are not seeing the cost/value ratio. One is a luxury, another is a necessity. Sure, we could reduce the accident rate, a policeman for every 3 teenagers should do the trick. It's a cost/benefit ratio right down the line. Please, please do the exercise. Just once. Pretend it is YOUR goal to save as many lives as is feasible, while minimizing the impact to the way of life of it's citizens. What would you do differently. Approach it that way. Because it's only when you achieve greater responsibility(usually with age) that you see the whole picture.

lunachick · 05-26-2003, 07:11 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by JakeJohnson
Driving does not intend to kill you, but it does in some cases. Let's take away vehicles.
Jake

Strawman. What needs to be done is to make roads and vehicles safer - and to improve peoples driving habit and courtesy on the road. And if the public can't do that WITHOUT legislation, then they will have to swallow a little law or two to make it safer for the majority. Simple, really.

Gurdur · 05-26-2003, 07:13 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by lunachick
....
. Ahhh, the arrogance of youth - so narrow in their understanding, many of them - small in their worlds and their minds - .

and they don't use paragraphs.

:banghead:

lunachick · 05-26-2003, 07:13 PM

Oh, and before I go back to class - you seem to go on about freedom. Methinks you don't really know what freedom IS.

I might come back to the concept of freedom after school...

Ciao for now.

keyser_soze · 05-26-2003, 07:15 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Gurdur
and they don't use paragraphs.

:banghead:

Hey, I try! I really do. But when you're typing 60+, it's hard to be accurate.

keyser_soze · 05-26-2003, 07:19 PM

Jake;
Look, I don't want you to feel everyone is ganging up on you here..we're not. We have just been there, try to give us the benefit of the doubt that we're not really trying to trash the party. We really aren't. But you WILL be seeing it from our side, in just a few short years.

I know it sucks...but it's just the way it is. A few short years under your belt, and your perspective changes. Things that seemed of great importance, you'll find...lose it later. You don't find the same things as important now as you did when you were 10 do you? What seemed critical to you then, is something laughable now.

Well, that is where wer're at right now. But they aren't laughable any more, they're just embarrassing.

Paragraphs for gurdur.

SimplyAtheistic · 05-26-2003, 07:19 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by keyser_soze
Because we REQUIRE the ability to move from one place to another. We only WANT to drink. Would our country, our society function without travel? Would it survive if the drinking age WASN'T raised from 18 to 21? You still are not seeing the cost/value ratio. One is a luxury, another is a necessity. Sure, we could reduce the accident rate, a policeman for every 3 teenagers should do the trick. It's a cost/benefit ratio right down the line. Please, please do the exercise. Just once. Pretend it is YOUR goal to save as many lives as is feasible, while minimizing the impact to the way of life of it's citizens. What would you do differently. Approach it that way. Because it's only when you achieve greater responsibility(usually with age) that you see the whole picture.

Ok, lets take away all driving except for commerce and trips to and from work. Driving to a vacation spot is out, driving to meet some friends is out, etc... They are just desires right?
Jake

SimplyAtheistic · 05-26-2003, 07:21 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by lunachick
Strawman. What needs to be done is to make roads and vehicles safer - and to improve peoples driving habit and courtesy on the road. And if the public can't do that WITHOUT legislation, then they will have to swallow a little law or two to make it safer for the majority. Simple, really.

Well, the lower the legal drinking age and make public announcements and improve teenagers driving habits to stop kids from DUI. Simple really.
Jake

SimplyAtheistic · 05-26-2003, 07:22 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Gurdur
and they don't use paragraphs.

:banghead:

Heh, I have always hated paragraphs, just ask my english teacher.

Jake

Thread Tools	Search this Thread
Show Printable Version	Search this Thread: Advanced Search

05-26-2003, 07:09 PM	#11
lunachick Veteran Member Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: NZ Posts: 7,895	A few years ago, NZ lower the legal drinking age from 21 to 18 in bars, and for people to buy liquor. There will always be underage drinkers. When the age is 21, the underage drinkers are around 18 and up - in the pubs, and buying their own booze, anyway. Whe the age was lowered, younger ages are getting away with buying alcohol and going to the pub. The NZ experience of this has been an increase in problem drinking with younger people, more unwanted pregnancies with younger people, more STD's, more road deaths - typically, the drunk driver will kill an innocent or two - and more hospital admissions due to the health effects of young binge drinkers harming their liver, kidneys and brain; and generally poisoning themselves during the course of a night. It is pretty much proven that the younger people start to drink excessively, the worse off they will be later. As they grow into more adult alcoholics, the effects on their partners, children, etc, is devastating. Many are also unable to service debts, as the piss all their money up the wall. The cost to the state in all this is millions. Who benefits? The kids think they do - at least in the early days of the "fun". But in the end, they don't. The only ones to benefit are the bloated liquor companies, and they know where their bread is buttered - get 'em young (hence slick marketing to the young), and you have 'em for life. Money, money, money, money! As with a great many things, Jake, there is MUCH more to the issue than meets the eye. And don't get me wrong - I used to go pretty hard out when I was younger, and still do occassionally now. But that's beside the point. You know I think is funny, though - you think you have a freer mind somehow - a more open mind - than those of us with both experience AND open minds. Ahhh, the arrogance of youth - so narrow in their understanding, many of them - small in their worlds and their minds - yet just can't see it. chuckle

05-26-2003, 07:13 PM	#15
lunachick Veteran Member Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: NZ Posts: 7,895	Oh, and before I go back to class - you seem to go on about freedom. Methinks you don't really know what freedom IS. I might come back to the concept of freedom after school... Ciao for now.

05-26-2003, 07:19 PM	#17
keyser_soze Veteran Member Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: god's judge (pariah) Posts: 1,281	Jake; Look, I don't want you to feel everyone is ganging up on you here..we're not. We have just been there, try to give us the benefit of the doubt that we're not really trying to trash the party. We really aren't. But you WILL be seeing it from our side, in just a few short years. I know it sucks...but it's just the way it is. A few short years under your belt, and your perspective changes. Things that seemed of great importance, you'll find...lose it later. You don't find the same things as important now as you did when you were 10 do you? What seemed critical to you then, is something laughable now. Well, that is where wer're at right now. But they aren't laughable any more, they're just embarrassing. Paragraphs for gurdur.

Freethought & Rationalism Archive

The archives are read only.