emotional

Certainly not! When I was told, at the age of eight, that death is the end of existence, it did not make me happier, it made me scared and miserable for the rest of my life. Only now that I believe it is not so, I am happy.

I value happiness far above truth. If it were conducive to my happiness to believe in a flat earth, I'd believe in a flat earth.

Amos

Maybe. The interesting part here is that indoctrination is good but only if it points at a reality that we will encounter later in life. If indeed it is based on an [archetypal] reality it will enlighten us someday, and if it is not based on such a reality it will become bagage that we must carry to the grave and we will eventually die under it.

Arken

Trying to kid? Selling point? What on earth are you talking about? I wasn't 'sold' atheism... it's just what I believe. I don't advertise it to others either. If someone believes in a deity, I can't stop them from believing in one any more than they can start me believing in one. The change in belief comes from within, thus there is no need for 'advertising' because it is useless. I think you need to get past your ridiculous biases


Except that I don't claim any of those to be 100% objective truth, end of discussion. As I have said more than once in this forum, I believe those to be true, but I am willing to concede that I am wrong on any of the points if given compelling evidence. Furthermore, I have met more than one atheist who believes in life after death and even though some atheists may tell you things, it does not follow that all atheists believe it any more than it follows that if one black man is a good athlete, all black men are. It is a stereotype and it's unfortunate that you have it.

As far as your comment about atheists saying 'the truth doesn't owe anything to your emotions' I happen to agree with that... but that doesn't mean I value truth higher than emotions. I can think of many, many times I have lied to save someone's feelings on both small and large matters because even though what I say may not be true, it will stop the person from being upset.

Arken

I'm not sure I understand it... if you have the ability to change what you truly believe based on your emotions then you have an ability greater than anyone I have ever met. I don't know anyone else, certainly not myself, who is able to change their perception of reality based on how they feel... if that were true, I'd be winning the lottery every day.

Amos

The problem with this Rene is that the truth you are seeking already exist within your mind (or you would have no idea of its existence) and so you have a lot of examining to do.

Could it be that this means two things: first, that for the most part you are unhappy, and second, that you do not know who you are?

So how about calling yourself 'Rene the lost sojourner.'

emotional

Once I could do that for one thing, I could do that for all things. Once I could believe in life after death out of fear of death, I could believe lots of other things out of autosuggestion.

Can you believe I was once a rational atheist? Just goes to show how far gone I am.

Arken

But can you really or are you deluding yourself into thinking you can? What happens if you make yourself believe you can walk through solid rock or that you are the ruler of the universe?

emotional

No, these are empirical-visible things. There is a limit.

joedad

Someone already said it and I'm only repeating it. Atheists are happy because they enjoy a greater degree of freedom than do theists. Theists have their masters. Atheists are their own masters. Theists are contented slaves.

emotional

<magus>Atheists think they're free, but they're actually slaves of Satan.</magus>