Loren Pechtel

What are you trying to do, pretend homosexuality doesn't exist? So that if your child ends up homosexual they are utterly confused, unaware that there are others like them? Maybe they'll decide they are so screwed up they commit suicide and save you from having a homosexual child?

Fr.Andrew

(Loren Pechtel): What are you trying to do, pretend homosexuality doesn't exist? So that if your child ends up homosexual they are utterly confused, unaware that there are others like them? Maybe they'll decide they are so screwed up they commit suicide and save you from having a homosexual child?
(Fr Andrew): Unfortunately, that happens too often. A total lack of sympathetic role models, combined with the guilt heaped on gay kids by a "Christian" upbringing, is more than some of them can bear.
That's what particularly angers me about trash like Dobson and groups like Focus on the Family--when they work to exclude homosexual mentors, they're denying support to an especially vulnerable group of kids.

openeyes

I'm more worried about kids being around people with attitudes like spurly's and Dobson's (that one is a majorly flawed person if he/she is homosexual despite the fact that one may treat others responsibly and with respect) than I am around homosexuals who don't hide the fact, but don't let them define them either.

I live in a townhouse complex. I'm more likely to tell my kids (both boys by the way) to be "careful" around the retired minister who yelled at some non-townhouse folk for simply walking on our "private" drive than I am to tell them to be "careful" around the gay couple who live a few doors away. Seems to me the retired minister is more likely to cause them problems than the gay couple from what I've seen.

I more worried about the type of people who diminish the worth of others simply based on some outdated, arguably questionable book passages than I am about someone who is comfortable with who they are and living a reasonable life.

Although I don't know them well enough to say for sure, I could easily be more comfortable around either of my two male gay cousins (on my mom's side) than around their sister who "is letting the Lord decide" how many kids she should have and currently has seven (including one with major developmental problems).

I about as far from "gay" as you can get, yet I still get angry at people who think they are "good" constantly separating homosexuals into "lower" class people solely on their sexual orientation.

Gunnaheave

I think you are ducking the question here. The distinction between role models in and out of the church is irrelevant, given the topic at hand. Dobson, etc. is campaigning against a non-Christian organization for their admittance of homosexuals, and you brought up your church examples in response to questions about that. All hedging aside, it is obvious that you consider it approppriate to campaign against homosexual operating as role-models in non-religious spheres on religious grounds. Now instead of giving me a yes or no answer you hedge about ideal worlds etc. sticking to the topic of homosexuals. As I said before, your stated reason for opposing homosexual role models is rebellion against God and/or resistance to His word, and this reason applies to many more of us than homosexuals. Now you cannot even seem to address the prospect of applying your standard here in a straight-foreward manner. Your opposition to homosexual role models is categorical, and yet your concerns about others are hedged about in this indirect language. I'm sorry to say this, but your double-standard is quite evident. This makes it difficult to accept that your opposition to homosexuality is either based on scripture or formulated out of love for the "sinner".

Treacle Worshipper

Thanks for replying, spurly.

How would you know that I was bi? I don't know how old your daughter is, but if she wants to get involved in a youth organisation outside your church, are you going to ask all the leaders if they're gay before you let her join?

I guess we're just going to have to agree to differ on this one. I don't think that a child knowing that some men love men & some women love women, as well as the het. norm, is going to affect her innocence. Children do not generally equate love with sex.

Being from Britain, I'm afraid I don't know what age range grades 6-8 cover. Please can you say?
From my own experience, both as a child and as an adult working with children, kids generally aren't interested in adults' relationships until they at least hit double figures. In Britain this is secondary school age (year 7/8 = age 11-12 & 12-13). I don't see why a 12 year old shouldn't know about the existence of homosexuality. A 12 year old is, imho, an adolescent, not a child.

(I would expect a 10 year old to have had some basic sex education. We had sex education at Junior school (at the end of year 6 - age 10). As the average age for menarche in the western world is now about 11 years, I believe, I would consider it very unfortunate for a girl child, particularly, not to know about sex at that age, to help her understand the changes in her own body; but that's a whole other discussion.)

I think the short answer to that is: I didn't deal with it. But I will PM you in more detail.
TW

spurly

Since we live in a democracy in the US and not a Theocracy, I wonder if you would be able to accept the following compromise. If the parent who was applying for a Big Brother/Big Sister for their child wanted only a heterosexual role model for their child, would you be willing to abide by the parent's wishes? That way it is up to each individual parent.

Big Brothers/Big Sisters already tries to match people up this way. They try to find people with similar interests and values and team them up together (at least the branch of BB/BS I was associated with did). Thus sexual orientation could be one of the categories they look at when considering the best match. If the parent does not mind a gay or bi role model, then they could be consdered to be a match.

What do you think?

Kevin

Treacle Worshipper

I think that is probably a reasonable compromise given current attitudes. However, I'm looking forward to a day when sexuality will be utterly irrelevant to these things, like hair colour. (Note: I didn't pick skin colour 'cos there are still racist attitudes in some parts of the world, unfortunately.)

I would still be interested in a response to this:
Thanks
TW

Ab_Normal

If I recall correctly, this was the response of the local branch of BB/BS when the story first broke a few months ago. Alas, I cannot link to a story - the local newspaper wants money to link to old stories.

Loren Pechtel

Match the *CHILD'S* interests. Since the sexual orientation of the child is unknown at that point no selection should be made on this criteria.

spurly

TW

No, I probably would not do that. However, if the information was offered to me, I might look around for another youth leader to help mentor my daughter.

(And I would do background checks on all those who want to work with children. Male, female, gay, bi, or straight)

Kevin