Freethought & Rationalism Archive

Tenspace · 06-13-2003, 10:01 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Disciple

But why does this particular potential idea, lead to such extremes? What is it about this idea, which leads people to states of bliss and security, or alternatively to shocking horror? This particular idea and its arguements and defences make up the majority of dicussion on this board...

You see? There is something amazing about the potential existence of a creator and there are reasons for this...We are almost driven to believe or disbelieve. Whilst there are a few true agnostics, most people know what they truly feel inside one way or the other...

Hi Disciple,

Whether a state of bliss, love, fear or horror, it is all driven by the grey matter in our head. To understand (or at least get a modern grasp of) emotions, you need to start with evolution. Cognitive scientists believe that our emotions are extensions of the basic "instincts" that have evolved over time. Fight or Flee has become pretty complex. I suggest:

"The Evolution of Consciousness", by Dr. Robert Ornstein. Good starting point, without the anti-religion tone you read in Dawkins or Mayr.

Tenspace

Philosoft · 06-13-2003, 12:14 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Nowhere357
This atheist finds Disciple's argument far more compelling for the validity of Christianity, then nit-picking over a collection of ancient myths and legends.

I don't know about "compelling." "Parsimonius," or "matter-of-fact," maybe.

Nowhere357 · 06-13-2003, 01:13 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Philosoft
I don't know about "compelling." "Parsimonius," or "matter-of-fact," maybe.

"Parsimony" is an interesting word. It involves Occam's Razor! Shoot, I learned something from this thread.

Keith Russell · 06-13-2003, 02:18 PM

Good afternoon:

If the only way to 'God' is through Christ, then how can the Bible be the Word of 'God'?

Most of it was written long before Christ, yet Christians believe that even those parts were inspired by 'God'.

So, which is it?

Were the authors of the Old Testament able to connect with 'God', enough to accurately record 'His' Word, even without Christ having lived, yet?

K

Philosoft · 06-13-2003, 02:51 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Nowhere357
"Parsimony" is an interesting word. It involves Occam's Razor!

Well, it can refer to Occam's Razor, but that's not how I was using it. I was actually referring, tongue-in-cheek-wise, to the amount of critical thinking involved.

Odemus · 06-13-2003, 03:08 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by theophilus
Christianity is propositional, i.e., it consists of statements about historical events and their significance as part of God's redemptive purpose.

I take it you mean to say that within the doctrinal framework of Christianity, there is some sort of claim based on historical events? How does this distinguish Christianity from most other religions which do the exact same thing?

hinduwoman · 06-13-2003, 05:55 PM

Disciple, please!
all these arguments have been made to me about the existence of Hindu gods as well by people who are sincerely feel that they have 'felt' the presence of these gods in their lives.

That is why subjective evidence such as this have no value when it comes to religious 'truth'.

Nowhere357 · 06-14-2003, 04:35 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by hinduwoman
Disciple, please!
all these arguments have been made to me about the existence of Hindu gods as well by people who are sincerely feel that they have 'felt' the presence of these gods in their lives.

That is why subjective evidence such as this have no value when it comes to religious 'truth'.

Hi Hinduwoman.
This seems to support my position that subjective experience is "filtered" through our belief system. The experiences, however, are real - even if merely psychological in origin.

The basic feeling seems to be one of expansive empathy, an awareness outside of our normal, naturally self-centered views.

Evil Milkman · 06-14-2003, 08:35 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Disciple

Saying you are an Atheist because there is no evidence that there is a God, is strange, when you consider that there is NO evidence that there is NOT a God. Thats right, there is NO EVIDENCE either way which can be proved to another.

Disciple,

Are you aware of the concept that is the Burden of Proof?

sandlewood · 06-14-2003, 09:31 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Disciple
There is something about the potential existence of a Divine creator which can drive Humans to such extremes of compassion and cruelty. I wonder why?...

I don�t think the existence or potential existence of a god drives people. I think whatever the motivations people have come from themselves or from other people. Gods are just used to justify behavior.

Quote:

Originally posted by Disciple
Saying you are an Atheist because there is no evidence that there is a God, is strange, when you consider that there is NO evidence that there is NOT a God. Thats right, there is NO EVIDENCE either way which can be proved to another.

If there were really no God, then what kind of evidence would you expect to see that would prove that? The lack of evidence for a god is the evidence against it.

06-13-2003, 02:18 PM	#44
Keith Russell Veteran Member Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: Overland Park, Kansas Posts: 1,336	Christian propaganda, nothing more. Good afternoon: If the only way to 'God' is through Christ, then how can the Bible be the Word of 'God'? Most of it was written long before Christ, yet Christians believe that even those parts were inspired by 'God'. So, which is it? Were the authors of the Old Testament able to connect with 'God', enough to accurately record 'His' Word, even without Christ having lived, yet? K

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06-13-2003, 05:55 PM	#47
hinduwoman Veteran Member Join Date: Jan 2001 Location: India Posts: 6,977	Disciple, please! all these arguments have been made to me about the existence of Hindu gods as well by people who are sincerely feel that they have 'felt' the presence of these gods in their lives. That is why subjective evidence such as this have no value when it comes to religious 'truth'.

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