brighid

Talulah,

I would be interested to see that report. I think one of the reasons those around the age of 15 might have a late-term abortion is because they typically don't get pre-natal care, are more likely to have abused drugs and alcohol and because pregnancy is more dangerous to a girl this age then an older female. I would also want to know the specific details of that report. What is "late" by their definition? Furthermore most states have pretty strict regulations regarding late-term abortions so I am a bit skeptical about that statistic.

Brighid

babelfish

The zealotry and dishonesty of this movement is frightening. A full-color enlarged photo of a human zygote, or even an embryo, would probably not elicit the horrified reactions they are looking for. Something that looks like a tadpole with big eyes bugging out of its huge head, a cleft lip, and a tail, just doesn't look enough like a baby to elicit the proper emotions.

brighid

I think those people holding up the tired, old signs of late-term abortions should have to visit DCFS or an orphanage with children who have been removed from abusive homes for some comparison. We have been looking to adopt a child and I have spent what can been seen as an inordinate amount of time looking through EVERY states available child listings. I read the stories and I am sickened by what some of these children have had to endure. I want to adopt them all… but that won’t happen. These people should not be so worried about the human potential that will never be, but the human potential that is wasting away in the existing children born into bad familial situations who desperately need loving families to heal their mental, emotional and physical wounds. That is the meaning of “pro-life.” Those pro-life people parading in front of abortion clinics condemning women to hell, screaming vile names at them no nothing about being “pro-life.” They are hateful and vile and cannot see that what they do demeans life and harms the dignity that ones humanity deserves.

If all of these churches would encourage their members to foster or adopt these needy children they would be doing more for life then by damning women to hell for having wombs. My husband has begged me to not visit those sites too often because it depresses me so. How can people be so cruel to their children?

It won’t be until the Pro-Life movement actually takes action toward bettering human life that I will even begin to have an ounce of respect for it. I realize that there are those amongst the movement that are doing good, but they don’t get the attention from their counterparts or the media. It’s sad … truly, truly sad.

Brighid

Queen of Swords

Originally posted by brighid:
<strong>These people should not be so worried about the human potential that will never be, but the human potential that is wasting away in the existing children born into bad familial situations ...</strong>

Completely agree. Here are two scenarios I posed to an anti-abortion fanatic once.

Scenario 1 : An abortion is performed. As a result, there is no further pregnancy and no child.

Scenario 2 : No abortion is performed. The child is born into a highly abusive family. He/she is degraded, neglected, beaten and finally killed.

Which scenario is preferable? His answer :

"The second one. At least that way, the child got to live."

Excuse me while I either vomit or cry, or both.

babelfish

Here's an article about <a href="http://www.findarticles.com/cf_dls/m2294/1999_May/55844300/p1/article.jhtml" target="_blank">Promise Keepers</a>.


I agree. The fact that these drugs are legal in other countries will make the blackmarket availability of them here almost inevitable. And, as was true before Roe v. Wade, people who can afford the price will be able to afford an abortion. And the law will probably target the black-marketeers, not the women who have taken an abortifacient. It's much more effective to just remove the choice from women's unpredictable, murderous hands!

This is what I don't think will ever happen. I've listened to Christian women who have gotten abortions speaking openly about their experiences, but never have I heard one take responsibility for committing murder! They always paint themselves as a victim. Someone "talked them into it" or "forced them to" have an abortion. They clearly don't see themselves as having murdered a child. If you killed a newborn, and took responsibility for it, I would think you would expect to do some time!

Clearly, even pro-life Christians differentiate intuitively between abortion and infanticide.

Talulah

Brighid,


My link two or three posts up from yours was where I got the info about the &lt;15 year olds and later abortions. I agree about what you surmise to be the reason. I would also say that I think that teenagers that young might take longer to know that they are pregnant. Some of them may have not even had regular cycles before they got pregnant.

The other statement that I made about late abortions for health reasons was something I think I remembered but don't have the evidence for.

[ November 08, 2002: Message edited by: Talulah ]</p>

simian

As far as I can see, the vast majority of the anti-choice Christian argument is that abortion IS murder. If it is not murder, then why be concerned? (This is, of course, ignoring the portion that feels ANY birth control is disobeying the will of their god) Then, of course, there is my experience with the general anti-choice crowd who will openly state that "abortion is murder." Please see:
<a href="http://www.covenantnews.com/murder.htm" target="_blank">here</a>, <a href="http://www.ark-of-salvation.org/abortion.htm" target="_blank">here</a>, <a href="http://www.abortionismurder.org/" target="_blank">here</a>, <a href="http://www.submission.org/abortion.html" target="_blank">here</a>, and <a href="http://www.silentscream.org/" target="_blank">here</a>.

Note: the front page of "Silent Scream" doesn't state (that I could find) directly that "abortion is murder," but this seems to be the idea of the site. Somebody familiar with "Silent Scream" should comment on how truthful the presentation is.

The comments you listed above seem to be placing the blame somewhere besides themselves. That doesn't mean they feel it is less than murder, just that they are not the "true" guilty party. "I'm not responsible, it was my ex-boyfriend that made me do it." "I was taken in by the lies of Planned Parenthood."

Simian

Edited because I am an idiot and hit the add reply button instead of the URL button.

[ November 08, 2002: Message edited by: simian ]</p>

babelfish

You may have a point there, simian.

If you blame the abortion on your boyfriend or your parents or even society, then you absolve yourself of any guilt and really do become the victim even in your own mind.

Still, I don't like to imagine a time when a desperate woman could be dragged off to jail because she's taken RU486 and her miscarriage was really an abortion!

It's horrifying.

winstonjen

That pro-lifer is really sick, IMO. They ALWAYS believe that a bad life is better than none at all. They care nothing for the quality, only of the QUANTITY of life. They would keep people alive for 200 years if they were allowed too much government power.

brighid

Thanks Talulah! Sorry I haven't responded sooner, but ... well describing this last week as busy would be an understatement!

WOW - I don't remember the details of those stats ... and unfortunately I don't have any of that stuff bookmarked anymore ....

Brighid