Freethought & Rationalism Archive

MilitantModerate · 09-01-2002, 07:14 PM

Just a quick FYI. I don't think it is explicitly mentioned in the article that St. Joseph's College
is a Catholic college affiliated with the UofA. It is a very tiny fraction of the overall University lest anyone think that teaching a >6000 year old universe is radical thinking up here

.

Secular Pinoy · 09-02-2002, 03:20 AM

BTW, Denis Lamoureux had a debate with Phillip Johnson on Evo vs Cre. It's in a book, <a href="http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/1573831336/qid=1030965147" target="_blank">Darwinism Defeated?</a>, which was discussed here a few months back.

Steven Carr · 09-02-2002, 04:34 AM

quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Science, he says, is a fabulous method for measuring the complexity and majesty of the natural world. But it can't measure things which many people believe to be real -- love, kindness, the human spirit.

---------------------------
So Christians are switching away from attacks on evolution and railing against psychology now :-)

KnightWhoSaysNi · 09-02-2002, 06:12 AM

I've met Lamoureux in person on numerous occasions back in 1997-99 when I lived in Edmonton for a time. I also met Caldwell too --- I think he discovered some kind of fossil that's an intermediate between lizards and snakes.

Lamoureux is a cool guy.

Although he's an evangelical Christian, he's great at sticking it to the creationists. Philip Johnson called him "Denis the Menace" once. He told me that dyed in wool YEC fundies often come out of his course accepting evolution, like the example the Edmonton Journal article gave.

In the last part of his course, Lamoureux invites a few guest speakers to come in: a creationist and an evolutionist. I attended one session in '99 where Lamoureux invited a Christian physics professor who was a theistic evolutionist (I forgot his name) and Margaret Helder of the Creation Science Association of Alberta. From what I can remember, the class wasn't too keen on agreement with Helder during the question/answer segment.

[ September 02, 2002: Message edited by: Nightshade ]

KnightWhoSaysNi · 09-03-2002, 03:35 AM

I'm occasionally still in contact with Dr. Lamoureux by email and I mentioned this thread to him recently. He emailed me back, telling me he looked at the thread, and enclosed some documents. The documents include the outline for his science/religion course, his opening and closing statements from the Darwinism, Design, and Democracy Conference in Kansas, a shortened version of a paper on Philip Johnson, and a paper on his views on Christian theology and evolution (evolutionary creation).

If anyone's interested, feel free to contact me and I'd be happy to forward stuff by email.

I also told him that he's quite welcome to participate in the forum if he wishes to or has the time.

[ September 03, 2002: Message edited by: Nightshade ]

Duvenoy · 09-03-2002, 04:13 AM

I hope he finds the time. He sounds like someone who would be very interesting to read and would contribute a lot.

doov

Wyz_sub10 · 09-03-2002, 06:25 AM

I'm glad to see this story made it here (and so quickly, too).

I was in Edmonton this past weekend visiting the in-laws and I saw that story in the Journal. At first, I thought it was a "Christianity in Science" piece. I felt better when I read the whole thing (and was not surprised that my anti-evolution father-in-law didn't point it out to me).

On a bright note, I finally got him to acknowledge that evolutionary theory does not claim to get cats from dogs (long story).

Denis Lamoureux · 09-03-2002, 07:44 AM

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Duvenoy:
[QB]I hope he finds the time. He sounds like someone who would be very interesting to read and would contribute a lot.

SUBJECT: From the Horse's Mouth ;-)

Hi guys,
One of your list members invited me to join your discussion. Thanks for the interest in the Edmonton Journal article. As interviews go, I thought Scott McKeen did a fair report. But of course there is so much more to say. By the end of today I will get you my new web page address and invite you to read a brief article on the view of origins I hold--Evolutionary Creation. Maybe we can do a little chatting on that.

As a university professor, Duvenoy is right on in that I have little time (especially this time of year!). But I'll try to contribute a bit to your group as time permits.

And ModerateMilitant is right about the U of Alberta--it is a regular university. Evolution is the paradigm of choice & there's no debate. My students are a unique group. They are mostly conservative Xians and are wrestling with the origins question. Word around the UofA is that my course provides them a model that allows them to be a Xian and to hold evolution as God's creative method.

Best,
Denis

Denis O. Lamoureux
DDS, PhD, PhD
Assistant Professor of Science & Religion
St. Joseph's College, University of Alberta
Edmonton, Alberta. Canada. T6G 2J5

KnightWhoSaysNi · 09-03-2002, 07:55 AM

Woohoo! Denis is here!

I look forward to any of your contributions. Although we're mostly heathens here, we're honoured to have someone of your calibre post here.

Have fun!

Kevin Dorner · 09-03-2002, 08:43 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Denis Lamoureux:
Hi...

Hi!

Welcome to the IIDB. If you would like, please feel free to introduce yourself in the <a href="http://iidb.org/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=forum&f=43&SUBMIT=Go" target="_blank">Welcome forum</a>, and enjoy your stay!

[ September 03, 2002: Message edited by: Kevin Dorner ]

09-02-2002, 06:12 AM	#14
KnightWhoSaysNi Veteran Member Join Date: Sep 2001 Location: Edmonton, Canada Posts: 2,767	I've met Lamoureux in person on numerous occasions back in 1997-99 when I lived in Edmonton for a time. I also met Caldwell too --- I think he discovered some kind of fossil that's an intermediate between lizards and snakes. Lamoureux is a cool guy. Although he's an evangelical Christian, he's great at sticking it to the creationists. Philip Johnson called him "Denis the Menace" once. He told me that dyed in wool YEC fundies often come out of his course accepting evolution, like the example the Edmonton Journal article gave. In the last part of his course, Lamoureux invites a few guest speakers to come in: a creationist and an evolutionist. I attended one session in '99 where Lamoureux invited a Christian physics professor who was a theistic evolutionist (I forgot his name) and Margaret Helder of the Creation Science Association of Alberta. From what I can remember, the class wasn't too keen on agreement with Helder during the question/answer segment. [ September 02, 2002: Message edited by: Nightshade ]</p>

09-03-2002, 03:35 AM	#15
KnightWhoSaysNi Veteran Member Join Date: Sep 2001 Location: Edmonton, Canada Posts: 2,767	I'm occasionally still in contact with Dr. Lamoureux by email and I mentioned this thread to him recently. He emailed me back, telling me he looked at the thread, and enclosed some documents. The documents include the outline for his science/religion course, his opening and closing statements from the Darwinism, Design, and Democracy Conference in Kansas, a shortened version of a paper on Philip Johnson, and a paper on his views on Christian theology and evolution (evolutionary creation). If anyone's interested, feel free to contact me and I'd be happy to forward stuff by email. I also told him that he's quite welcome to participate in the forum if he wishes to or has the time. [ September 03, 2002: Message edited by: Nightshade ]</p>

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09-01-2002, 07:14 PM	#11
MilitantModerate Senior Member Join Date: Jun 2001 Location: Edmonton, AB Posts: 603	Just a quick FYI. I don't think it is explicitly mentioned in the article that St. Joseph's College is a Catholic college affiliated with the UofA. It is a very tiny fraction of the overall University lest anyone think that teaching a >6000 year old universe is radical thinking up here .

09-02-2002, 03:20 AM	#12
Secular Pinoy Veteran Member Join Date: Feb 2001 Location: Quezon City, Philippines Posts: 1,994	BTW, Denis Lamoureux had a debate with Phillip Johnson on Evo vs Cre. It's in a book, <a href="http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/1573831336/qid=1030965147" target="_blank">Darwinism Defeated?</a>, which was discussed here a few months back.

09-02-2002, 04:34 AM	#13
Steven Carr Veteran Member Join Date: Jul 2001 Location: England Posts: 5,629	quote: -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Science, he says, is a fabulous method for measuring the complexity and majesty of the natural world. But it can't measure things which many people believe to be real -- love, kindness, the human spirit. --------------------------- So Christians are switching away from attacks on evolution and railing against psychology now :-)

09-03-2002, 04:13 AM	#16
Duvenoy Veteran Member Join Date: May 2002 Location: Just another hick from the sticks. Posts: 1,108	I hope he finds the time. He sounds like someone who would be very interesting to read and would contribute a lot. doov

09-03-2002, 06:25 AM	#17
Wyz_sub10 Veteran Member Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: In the land of two boys and no sleep. Posts: 9,890	I'm glad to see this story made it here (and so quickly, too). I was in Edmonton this past weekend visiting the in-laws and I saw that story in the Journal. At first, I thought it was a "Christianity in Science" piece. I felt better when I read the whole thing (and was not surprised that my anti-evolution father-in-law didn't point it out to me). On a bright note, I finally got him to acknowledge that evolutionary theory does not claim to get cats from dogs (long story).

09-03-2002, 07:44 AM	#18
Denis Lamoureux Junior Member Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: Edmonton, AB. Canada Posts: 46	[QUOTE]Originally posted by Duvenoy: [QB]I hope he finds the time. He sounds like someone who would be very interesting to read and would contribute a lot. SUBJECT: From the Horse's Mouth ;-) Hi guys, One of your list members invited me to join your discussion. Thanks for the interest in the Edmonton Journal article. As interviews go, I thought Scott McKeen did a fair report. But of course there is so much more to say. By the end of today I will get you my new web page address and invite you to read a brief article on the view of origins I hold--Evolutionary Creation. Maybe we can do a little chatting on that. As a university professor, Duvenoy is right on in that I have little time (especially this time of year!). But I'll try to contribute a bit to your group as time permits. And ModerateMilitant is right about the U of Alberta--it is a regular university. Evolution is the paradigm of choice & there's no debate. My students are a unique group. They are mostly conservative Xians and are wrestling with the origins question. Word around the UofA is that my course provides them a model that allows them to be a Xian and to hold evolution as God's creative method. Best, Denis Denis O. Lamoureux DDS, PhD, PhD Assistant Professor of Science & Religion St. Joseph's College, University of Alberta Edmonton, Alberta. Canada. T6G 2J5

09-03-2002, 07:55 AM	#19
KnightWhoSaysNi Veteran Member Join Date: Sep 2001 Location: Edmonton, Canada Posts: 2,767	Woohoo! Denis is here! I look forward to any of your contributions. Although we're mostly heathens here, we're honoured to have someone of your calibre post here. Have fun!

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