Colander of Truth

I suppose the only proponents of feral humanity are those who have been sheltered from its effects ... the grass is greener concept.

Do you honestly think that what stands between the independence of ANY person from some form of dependence is welfare?

Nostalgic Pushhead

I think the concept is okay but needs to be greatly reformed.
As far as I know its greatly abused. It should be reserved only for those truly unable to work.

"Get a job, you lazy bastards" is my motto.

everlastingtongue

Originally posted by Subi dura a rudibus
No. I grew up in a welfare neighborhood. My mother fed me with food bought by food stamps. I know what it is like there. And yet, surprise, I�m a libertarian. Why? Because government subsidy breeds nothing but complacency. I�ve seen it first-hand.

VonEvilstein

Am I my brother's keeper?

You bet your ass I am!

meritocrat

You're deliberately confusing the issue.

Cap'n Jack

Welfare is useful, when you have more people than jobs to employ them with. It helps keep people (doesn't always work) from having to find "other" means of income.

Gravity

I voted yes, change the state.

I think we have lived long enough to realize that some people simply can not get by in their current condition, nor have any real chance to improve it and become a productive member of society again.

For those people, unless individuals or NGOs want to help, they are on their own. It is my personal philosophy that a government should not invest in something that will not see a return on or at least create a condition that is condusive to growth and productivity.

But I do not think those are the general case nor the majority, but mainly a minority of the wealthfare and related government help recipients do have the potential and ability to become financially self-sufficient for the long term. Its a matter of getting them to run in a mentally, emotionally, physically, and financially productive way.

There is a big difference in can't work and won't work.

The government should,

1. Be disciplined. Do not reward lazyness, apathy, and so on. Do not help those who do not help themselves. If they won't even attempt to become productive and try to blackmail the government through things like racial, class, and moral witchhunting, the government should not give in, nor should they try to compromise, nor try to demonstrate for them that they aren't those things.
2. Redistribute wealth to those who will not in some manner return it(either directly through work, money, or even indirectly in the form of taxes).
3. Use the martial and/or educational sytem already in place on a temporary/contractual basis in exchange for work(like security, environmental clean up, etc) and leverage any skills that unemployeed person might have to facilitate their progress towards employement.
4. Be accountable for its own policies that might effect or influence employement. Bad economic decisions create bad economic conditions, thus saddling itself with a problem like unemployement.
5. Basically create a situation where individuals are held accountable for their own financial situation, not the government. If they don't work, either through their own means or temporarly through the government, then its their own choice to live without some form of income.

Basically personal income through work and finicial growth, not food stamps and an endless cycle of poverty.

Its hurts, and its not 'fair', but discipline and effort are required for those who are not as fortunet to get off the poverty line and gain upward momentum. A system that tends to bred complacency, no matter how humane on its surface, does not solve the problem.

Jat

Get a job, maybe?

Jat

Why am I not surprised. I'd love to see something disabiling happen to you which would deplete ALL of your savings and force you to go on welfare to make you realize just how ignorant that statement actually is.

Jat

In our system we don't use food stamps. We don't have to.