Freethought & Rationalism Archive

B. H. Manners · 08-20-2003, 08:31 PM

Often times I have Christians tell me that if God doesn't exist, then they have no reason to hold to any moral standard or care about what they do in regards to who it hurts.

Can any of you who agree with this mindset provide any absolute objective empirical truth to back this claim up?

Rational BAC · 08-20-2003, 08:52 PM

Sorry------as a Christian I do not agree with that at all. Morals have little or nothing to do with religion in any kind of practical sense. People are moral because they choose to be.

B. H. Manners · 08-20-2003, 08:54 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Rational BAC
Sorry------as a Christian I do not agree with that at all. Morals have little or nothing to do with religion for most.

You are wise.

Rational BAC · 08-20-2003, 08:56 PM

Wow ------that was a fast response. Seemed like within seconds before my minor editing.

Godless Wonder · 08-20-2003, 09:04 PM

Someone else (I forget who) posted this snippet in another thread yesterday:

Quote:

In multiple studies, there is a negative correlation between theism and morality. By Franzblau's 1934 study, there's a negative correlation between religiousity and honesty. Ross 1950 shows atheists and agnostics are more likely to express their willingness to help the poor than the deeply religious. 1969 Hirschi and Stark found no correlation in lawbreaking by churchgoing children and non-churchgoing children.

It is from here: Skeptic, vol.6 #2 1998
via this: http://kspark.kaist.ac.kr/Jesus/Inte...20religion.htm
Seemed relevant, so here it is again.

Tenek · 08-20-2003, 09:18 PM

Perhaps it's the idea that since Jesus paid for their sins, they have carte blanche in the department of evil so long as they go to Church and beat up an atheist once in awhile.

Has anybody ever measure the correlation of morality with non-Abrahamic religions? (goes over to check said board in the meantime)

Magus55 · 08-20-2003, 10:15 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Rational BAC
Sorry------as a Christian I do not agree with that at all. Morals have little or nothing to do with religion in any kind of practical sense. People are moral because they choose to be.

The level of morality seems to be higher among Christians though. Most atheists seem to have little problem with premarital sex, abortions, profanity, pornography, lying, etc. Obviously not all atheists find those things acceptable, and atheists may not see any moral problem with those things, but I do see a huge difference in the moral standards of atheists and Christians ( especially fundamentalist). And after reading the thread on pornography, under the morality forum, and seeing people post that they'd have no problem with parents giving children pornography is absolutely appauling.

xsquid · 08-21-2003, 01:26 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Magus55
... after reading the thread on pornography, under the morality forum, and seeing people post that they'd have no problem with parents giving children pornography is absolutely appauling.

How about socialized murder, Magus?
A while back I saw an exhibition of lynchings that took place over the decades. Many of the photos had people standing around the victim, some wearing their best clothes, all of them smiling. Now, we know most of these vile incidents took place in deeply Christian country, and I have little doubt that many of them--maybe most of them--went to church the following Sunday and praised the Lawd and sang about the brotherhood of man.

But between you and me, Magus, I'd rather my kid were caught with Playboy than Guns & Ammo.

winstonjen · 08-21-2003, 01:57 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Magus55
The level of morality seems to be higher among Christians though. Most atheists seem to have little problem with premarital sex, abortions, profanity, pornography, lying, etc. Obviously not all atheists find those things acceptable, and atheists may not see any moral problem with those things, but I do see a huge difference in the moral standards of atheists and Christians ( especially fundamentalist). And after reading the thread on pornography, under the morality forum, and seeing people post that they'd have no problem with parents giving children pornography is absolutely appauling.

Because PAUL disapproved of it, right?

Jokes aside, explain the disproportionately HIGH number of Xians in jail.

HRG · 08-21-2003, 04:52 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Magus55
The level of morality seems to be higher among Christians though. Most atheists seem to have little problem with premarital sex, abortions, profanity, pornography,

Sure, because those actions are not immoral according to many non-theist moral systems. You might equally call Christians immoral because they eat pork (Muslim-immoral) or beef (Hindu-immoral).

Quote:

lying, etc.

Now you are descending into slander.

Quote:

Obviously not all atheists find those things acceptable, and atheists may not see any moral problem with those things, but I do see a huge difference in the moral standards of atheists and Christians ( especially fundamentalist).

True. But a difference does not translate into a higher level of morality of one group. The only comparison you could make is comparing how well each group conforms to its own moral standards.

Regards,
HRG.

08-20-2003, 08:31 PM	#1
B. H. Manners Veteran Member Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: Texas Posts: 1,213	A question for the Christians Often times I have Christians tell me that if God doesn't exist, then they have no reason to hold to any moral standard or care about what they do in regards to who it hurts. Can any of you who agree with this mindset provide any absolute objective empirical truth to back this claim up?

Thread Tools	Search this Thread
Show Printable Version	Search this Thread: Advanced Search

08-20-2003, 08:52 PM	#2
Rational BAC Veteran Member Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: Tampa Bay area Posts: 3,471	Sorry------as a Christian I do not agree with that at all. Morals have little or nothing to do with religion in any kind of practical sense. People are moral because they choose to be.

08-20-2003, 08:56 PM	#4
Rational BAC Veteran Member Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: Tampa Bay area Posts: 3,471	Wow ------that was a fast response. Seemed like within seconds before my minor editing.

08-20-2003, 09:18 PM	#6
Tenek Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: Canada Posts: 979	Perhaps it's the idea that since Jesus paid for their sins, they have carte blanche in the department of evil so long as they go to Church and beat up an atheist once in awhile. Has anybody ever measure the correlation of morality with non-Abrahamic religions? (goes over to check said board in the meantime)

Freethought & Rationalism Archive

The archives are read only.