Freethought & Rationalism Archive

rem · 02-20-2003, 02:29 PM

Add to that their policy of shunning former members. I am currently shunned by family and former friends simply because I no longer believe that the Governing Body of Jehovah's Witnesses is God's channel on earth. Many families are ruined daily because of this sick policy.

rem

Nataraja · 02-20-2003, 03:28 PM

Buddhist tradition warns against touting one's own doctrine as being better than another's, yet they have one of the most devout followings in the world, and their size is nothing to sneeze at either. Most Christians, whose predecessors murdered people for believing differently (This still happens, come to think of it, though on a smaller scale), hardly ever talk about religion.

Get your neighbor and her boyfriend involved with the UUA. Their churches are a good place to learn about religious tolerance.

Craig · 02-20-2003, 04:58 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Nataraja
Get your neighbor and her boyfriend involved with the UUA. Their churches are a good place to learn about religious tolerance.

Jehovah's Witnesses are not allowed to go into another church building no matter what the reason. Since the boyfriend is the Witness, he won't be able to go. They view other churches as demonic and controlled by Satan.

This is a bad, bad cult and your friend should run far away from this.

WinAce · 02-20-2003, 06:08 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Craig
True, but the Witnesses are an extreme. They do not believe anyone that is not a Jehovah's Witness will be saved. Some religions may hint at that, but this is a central tenet of their beliefs.

So even the babies and foreign tribesman are f*cked up a specific orifice in this one? (Even Baptists have loopholes for those)

Then again, it's not like eternal torture for non-believers who did hear a contrived myth is much worse than eternal torture for non-believers who didn't. :banghead:

crownboy · 02-20-2003, 06:43 PM

Hey, rem,good to see you posting over here now

.
Did you ever get my recent email to you,BTW?

Like some of the others that have posted on this thread, I too have had the unfortunate experience of being raised in the JW cult. I would not recommend this experience for anyone. JW's are a very end mind control group. Worst of all, it's almost impossible to leave the group without loosing family or friends, as the group explicitly forbids members to speak to ex-non family members all together, and frowns extremely heavily on members speaking to ex-members who are family except in "family emergencies" (e.g.: death in the family). Below is a repost of something I said to someone
here .
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
As a current JW kid (actually young adult, I'm 20), I can tell you unequivocally that it's a bad idea for your granddaughter to get involved in that religion. It's not too bad if you just go and day dream for two hours at the meetings, but pressure will be put on her to "advance" at the slightest sign of interest. They'll expect you to join the a program that helps you become a better "kingdom preacher" (i.e.: help you to effectively bother people on Saturday morning ), and also expect you to become a "publisher" (a person who can offically bother you on Saturday morning ). All this leads up to baptism, and once you're baptized, they've got you.

I haven't revealed my atheism to my parents as yet, and necessarily my lack of belief in JW dogma (I still live at home), because such a move would probably result in my explusion from the religion (since I'm baptized), which carries the weight of potentially never being able to speak to my family again (in my situation, I'm pretty certain that wouldn't happen, but since JW's are encouraged to avoid contact with people, including relatives, who are expelled, this would probably result in a tangible strain in my relationship with some of my family. The ironic thing is, if I simply "fade out" and become inactive without offically being expelled, JW's wouldn't necessarily shun me, and my relationship with my family will probably be the same. I'm hoping to go that route.). So even if your granddaughter decides to attend a few meetings TELL HER DON'T GET INVOLVED!!!! If she decides she needs god in her life (she seems like a potential infidel, though), she can do a lot better than that quasi-cult.

As far as the book she is studying (it's probably the "Knowlegde that Leads to Everlasting Life" book), when it comes to the standard "god arguments", JW's are no better than any fundy religion. They make the same lame arguments, and a trip to the infidel library (and maybe some books), is all that is needed. As far as their distinct quirky theology goes, there's help there as well. The JW's have some really bazzare(no birthday, no voting etc.) and some really dangerous beliefs (they don't believe in taking blood transfusions, even to save lives). They've also predicted the end of the world several times (1914, 1925, 1941 and 1975 comes to mind. The last one wasn't a full out prediction, but it was implied so strongly, that they apologized for leading people on later, and that Org. almost never aplogizes for mistakes).

There are some good websites as well. I post , under the same name here as here. There are tons of people there who will definitely help you. Also .this site is pretty good and a personal favourite of mine (it has a bit of a religious slant, but still very informative).

I would also encourage you to buy the book Crisis of Conscience by Raymond Franz and share it with her (make sure her guardians don't know). Franz is a former member of the Governing Body, a group of men with as much power as the pope in the Catholic church, but even more adored . This book exposes many flaws of the religion, and shows you how severely the religion handles dissent (but the book is not a bitter polemic). I would also do a simple google search for "jehovahs witnesses". You will get the results you want .

And finally, tell your granddaughter not to discuss anything she reads about the JW's to her foster parents. JW's aren't allowed to look at "hostile sources" on the web or in print, so her guardians will first of all dismiss what she has to say, then try to curtail her efforts. She has to think of her interest and "keep them in the dark" so to speak. If she can visit the first site I mentioned on a computer not at her house, I think she'll benefit much. I hope this post has been of some help to you.

(edited to add this website as an excellent source for quotes on errors in the JW literature.)

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Since the relationship you describe is a bf/gf and is on more "equal terms" than the one above, I would definitely encourage the girl to discuss her findings with her boyfriend,and not let him chicken out with an answer like "these are apostate writings". If she is not too far in, she should be capable of seeing how ridiculuos such an answer would be, anyway.

rem · 02-20-2003, 07:57 PM

Hey Crownboy!

What a coincidence... I just sent off a reply to you a couple hours ago. I guess it was you who told me about this site... I was thinking it was funkyderek.

Good to see ya here!

rem

malookiemaloo · 02-21-2003, 12:22 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by WinAce
Watching them tie themselves in knots over rationalizing away all their failed end-times prophecies is more hilarious than asking regular Christians why Jesus didn't come back 'before all standing here are dead'.

Not strictly relevant to the JW's (in fact not relevant at all) but what is your problem with Jesus not coming back 'before all standing here are dead'? By the way, I assume you are paraphrasing.

malookiemaloo

Jeremy Pallant · 02-21-2003, 10:26 AM

I think this really does belong in Miscellaneous Religious Discussions.

gsx1138 · 02-22-2003, 11:09 PM

I was raised a JW until I left at age 20. I can not stress this enough get her and anyone you know AWAY from the Jehovah's Witnesses asap. They are as evil as evil can get. Their conversion techniques are simple yet very effective. They encourage a person to question every religion while pointing out that theirs is the truth. You may think that other christian sects do this also but not to the extent that the JW's do. Run my friend and take anyone you can.

jayh · 02-23-2003, 05:50 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by gsx1138
They encourage a person to question every religion while pointing out that theirs is the truth

I was raised a JW also. Interestingly it was that process that helped me drop the religion, because I turned the same techniques on JW beliefs and found them just as tenuous.

They use fear a lot. Fear that if you distrust the current dogma, you are 'resisting' the spirit.... that probably is the tightest emotional hold they have on followers. They are not unique in that, I have seen other fundamentalist cults just as destructive, and just as bizarre.

The funny thing about many of the exJW websites I have been to is that so many of these people wax on and on about how they broke free (which is good).... and then they just jump into some other braindead fundy Xtian cult (arrghhhh)!!!! Seems like they learned the wrong lesson.

jay

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02-20-2003, 02:29 PM	#11
rem Junior Member Join Date: Feb 2003 Location: San Francisco Posts: 24	Add to that their policy of shunning former members. I am currently shunned by family and former friends simply because I no longer believe that the Governing Body of Jehovah's Witnesses is God's channel on earth. Many families are ruined daily because of this sick policy. rem

02-20-2003, 03:28 PM	#12
Nataraja Regular Member Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: NC Posts: 433	Buddhist tradition warns against touting one's own doctrine as being better than another's, yet they have one of the most devout followings in the world, and their size is nothing to sneeze at either. Most Christians, whose predecessors murdered people for believing differently (This still happens, come to think of it, though on a smaller scale), hardly ever talk about religion. Get your neighbor and her boyfriend involved with the UUA. Their churches are a good place to learn about religious tolerance.

02-20-2003, 06:43 PM	#15
crownboy Regular Member Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: NYC, New York Posts: 114	Hey, rem,good to see you posting over here now . Did you ever get my recent email to you,BTW? Like some of the others that have posted on this thread, I too have had the unfortunate experience of being raised in the JW cult. I would not recommend this experience for anyone. JW's are a very end mind control group. Worst of all, it's almost impossible to leave the group without loosing family or friends, as the group explicitly forbids members to speak to ex-non family members all together, and frowns extremely heavily on members speaking to ex-members who are family except in "family emergencies" (e.g.: death in the family). Below is a repost of something I said to someone here . ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------ As a current JW kid (actually young adult, I'm 20), I can tell you unequivocally that it's a bad idea for your granddaughter to get involved in that religion. It's not too bad if you just go and day dream for two hours at the meetings, but pressure will be put on her to "advance" at the slightest sign of interest. They'll expect you to join the a program that helps you become a better "kingdom preacher" (i.e.: help you to effectively bother people on Saturday morning ), and also expect you to become a "publisher" (a person who can offically bother you on Saturday morning ). All this leads up to baptism, and once you're baptized, they've got you. I haven't revealed my atheism to my parents as yet, and necessarily my lack of belief in JW dogma (I still live at home), because such a move would probably result in my explusion from the religion (since I'm baptized), which carries the weight of potentially never being able to speak to my family again (in my situation, I'm pretty certain that wouldn't happen, but since JW's are encouraged to avoid contact with people, including relatives, who are expelled, this would probably result in a tangible strain in my relationship with some of my family. The ironic thing is, if I simply "fade out" and become inactive without offically being expelled, JW's wouldn't necessarily shun me, and my relationship with my family will probably be the same. I'm hoping to go that route.). So even if your granddaughter decides to attend a few meetings TELL HER DON'T GET INVOLVED!!!! If she decides she needs god in her life (she seems like a potential infidel, though), she can do a lot better than that quasi-cult. As far as the book she is studying (it's probably the "Knowlegde that Leads to Everlasting Life" book), when it comes to the standard "god arguments", JW's are no better than any fundy religion. They make the same lame arguments, and a trip to the infidel library (and maybe some books), is all that is needed. As far as their distinct quirky theology goes, there's help there as well. The JW's have some really bazzare(no birthday, no voting etc.) and some really dangerous beliefs (they don't believe in taking blood transfusions, even to save lives). They've also predicted the end of the world several times (1914, 1925, 1941 and 1975 comes to mind. The last one wasn't a full out prediction, but it was implied so strongly, that they apologized for leading people on later, and that Org. almost never aplogizes for mistakes). There are some good websites as well. I post , under the same name here as here. There are tons of people there who will definitely help you. Also .this site is pretty good and a personal favourite of mine (it has a bit of a religious slant, but still very informative). I would also encourage you to buy the book Crisis of Conscience by Raymond Franz and share it with her (make sure her guardians don't know). Franz is a former member of the Governing Body, a group of men with as much power as the pope in the Catholic church, but even more adored . This book exposes many flaws of the religion, and shows you how severely the religion handles dissent (but the book is not a bitter polemic). I would also do a simple google search for "jehovahs witnesses". You will get the results you want . And finally, tell your granddaughter not to discuss anything she reads about the JW's to her foster parents. JW's aren't allowed to look at "hostile sources" on the web or in print, so her guardians will first of all dismiss what she has to say, then try to curtail her efforts. She has to think of her interest and "keep them in the dark" so to speak. If she can visit the first site I mentioned on a computer not at her house, I think she'll benefit much. I hope this post has been of some help to you. (edited to add this website as an excellent source for quotes on errors in the JW literature.) ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Since the relationship you describe is a bf/gf and is on more "equal terms" than the one above, I would definitely encourage the girl to discuss her findings with her boyfriend,and not let him chicken out with an answer like "these are apostate writings". If she is not too far in, she should be capable of seeing how ridiculuos such an answer would be, anyway.

02-20-2003, 07:57 PM	#16
rem Junior Member Join Date: Feb 2003 Location: San Francisco Posts: 24	Hey Crownboy! What a coincidence... I just sent off a reply to you a couple hours ago. I guess it was you who told me about this site... I was thinking it was funkyderek. Good to see ya here! rem

02-21-2003, 10:26 AM	#18
Jeremy Pallant Veteran Member Join Date: Dec 2000 Location: Tucson, Arizona, USA Posts: 1,242	I think this really does belong in Miscellaneous Religious Discussions.

02-22-2003, 11:09 PM	#19
gsx1138 Regular Member Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: Bremerton, Washington Posts: 379	I was raised a JW until I left at age 20. I can not stress this enough get her and anyone you know AWAY from the Jehovah's Witnesses asap. They are as evil as evil can get. Their conversion techniques are simple yet very effective. They encourage a person to question every religion while pointing out that theirs is the truth. You may think that other christian sects do this also but not to the extent that the JW's do. Run my friend and take anyone you can.

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