Pyrrho

It is good that you bring this up, as it is proof that God (as represented in the Bible) approves of abortion. This is telling people what they should do. And, there are no verses in the Bible ever condemning abortion in any case whatsoever!

Think about all of those deluded Christians who, if the Bible is the word of God as many of them imagine, are really acting counter to their deity�s expressed commands!

Rational BAC

So the thigh is a euphemism for the womb? One hell of a stretch there. I still say some are getting carried away with fantasy.

I can think of a lot of things people can do with their thighs-----awfully good sex for example-----a woman with strong thighs is great in the sex act. But carrying a baby in a thigh?

Assuming all people have 2 thighs, then women must have 2 wombs. Who knows which thigh the fetus is being carried in?-------could be the one that rotted carried nothing at all. So it is a coin toss whether there was any abortion at all.

wade-w

Did you even bother looking at the other translations provided? Look at the NRSV and New Jeruselem verses. Did you bother to look at the context?

Roland98

Rational--nice gymnastics, but I doubt there's a scholar around who would take the position that "womb" isn't meant in that verse. As was mentioned, there is no Biblical aversion to abortion, and as this verse suggests, quite the opposite.

Rational BAC

You have a point with the NRSV (fairly recent translation).

The other translations are in no way obvious as far as meaning abortion unless you have a very vivid imagination.----the most I get out of them is that a women will lose future fertility (and of course will have to hobble around on one leg).------------

---------(Will admit that the OT has a lot of silly things in it. Don't really understand why anyone pays much attention to it except for occasionally containing some good literature.)

Pyrrho

Anyone who values consistency and who pays attention to the New Testament will want to pay attention to the Old Testament, as these supposed words of Jesus show quite clearly:


But, then again, most Christians don't have a very high regard for consistency.



Edited to add:

As for the euphemisms in the King James Version of the Bible (and other versions), the whole point of a euphemism is to not say what is meant, which is why they are not perfectly obvious to you. You may also have been fooled by the word "servant" in the King James Version of the Bible, as it is a euphemism for "slave". You can know this to be true when you read about buying and selling "servants".

Doctor X

Indeed:

particularly in the NT the word translated as "servant" is the Greek for "slave!" Another word exists for "servant."

I believe similar euphemisms exist in Hebrew--methinks someone puts his hand on the thigh of one of the Patriarchs.

Anyways, translation is interpretation. Translators "unhappy" with the NT acceptance if not promotion of slavery tried to "correct" it.

Regarding the herbal abortion, the best defense one could have is to argue that the "curse" to the woman happens before she happens to get pregnant. Rather a stretch. . . .

Furthermore, abortion is rarely, if ever, condemned in the ancient world. In Greco-Roman law it is forbidden only to protect the property of the husband! Indeed, the Hippocratic Oath is rather unique for categorically forbidding the practice.

However, given the propensity of the OT to forbid things, it is rather odd that it does not categorically forbid the practice if such was considered an abomination.

--J.D.

Rational BAC

As a cherry picker Christian I can toss out anything I find illogical or even what I just plain dislike personally-----assuming the Holy Spirit is guiding me in my choices-----and that is what I believe to be true.

I think most atheists would agree that the scriptures were mightily corrupted over the 1st few centuries-----things changed, things added in for the sake of conformity etc etc. And with that I whole heartedly agree.

So one of the things I throw out is where Jesus PURPORTEDLY said He did not come to change anything in the OT. It is terribly obvious that He did come to change many many things in the OT.

And it also seems very obvious that many of the scriptural corruptions were intended to make the OT and NT conform. That may be OK for literalist fundies but not for me. If it makes no sense, then I throw it out.

As for euphemisms-----If you think a thigh is a good euphemism for a womb---OK then. Does seem like a big stretch. After all there are 2 thighs first of all (which might favor twins possibly). But I can think of many euphemisms to describe the womb which would make a whole lot more sense than the thigh. Tummy, mid-section, even liver, intestines, bladder and kidneys would make better, more logical euphemisms than a damned thigh or your big toe, or your ankle or your knee.

Zora

My once-Catholic mother referred to menstruation as "the curse,"
that having been taught to her by the nuns as being part of women's punishment for the Garden of Eden mishap. So, that may be the meaning of "curse" in the abortion passage.

Seems (much to my surprise, because I thought I was an atheist) I may be a Christian! I have thrown out all of the Old Testament as being corrupt, and Jesus came to correct it anyhow. And, I have serious "issues" with the New Testament, too, and have rejected it, including Jesus's divine birth and resurrection which I take to be a corruption and misrepresentation of the actual events. :banghead:

Calzaer

So you're saying this tea will actually cause a woman's THIGH to rot? I've never heard of a drink that could do that.

How would that have anything to do with proving a woman had an affair?

Oh, I see. You're making up your own religion as you go along. In that case, why even bother with what the Bible says about anything at all? Write you're own, after all, the Holy Spirit is guiding you.