tdekeyser

RELIGION AND SOME ABUSE
Gayler told CBS’s “The Early Show” that when she lived with Mitchell and Barzee they prayed for several hours a day and had expected her to do the same. She said he was abusive “to a degree.”
“He shot a dog in front of us, made me eat my own rabbit for dinner, things like that,” she said.
Asked if he was sexually abusive, she said there were “hugs, kisses that were kind of uncalled for” and she was sometimes uncomfortable with the way he stared at her.
Elizabeth’s father, Ed Smart, said little about Mitchell when he spoke Thursday about his daughter’s return, focusing instead on pressing Congress to create a national Amber Alert system to get information out quickly in any future child abductions.
Smart said he hadn’t sorted out his feelings about Mitchell. He recalled working with the drifter on the roof of his family’s home.
“He was so soft-spoken,” Smart said. “I would have never guessed that such an animal could exist behind a face that looked so reasonable.”

tdekeyser

Why do churches allow newly freed prisoners (criminals) into their church with open arms and then let them mingle with all the kids? Is it that they believe that in a house of worship that the kids are protected?

My partner (Anna) was 'harmed' (don't wish to go into it) by one of these encounters. The church allowed an ex-prisoner to attend services and be a 'mentor' because he had now converted to Christianity and had Christ in his heart. Is this person less likely to commit a crime? Not in this case, not only was she harmed physically, he also took $50,000 from her because he convinced her that he was "anointed".

brighid

Td – We simply do not have enough information to make the kind of conclusions you wish to make. For all we know this man targeted this family and planned on kidnapping the daughter any way, or he might not have done anything at all. I think their trusting nature certainly contributed to trusting a person who had not yet earned it, in part due to their Christian faith. BUT it cannot be blamed for the actions of a man and woman who are obviously mentally ill and who happen to share the Christian faith.

Not everyone is worldly, or has had the unfortunate opportunity to meet with the darker side of humanity and therefore they trust when they should remain skeptical. This is unfortunate, but many of us have experienced similar stings because we lacked the necessary experience to discern the good guys from the bad guys. Even when we have the skills to discern those bad people from others they don’t always come with outward warning labels. Some even deceive the best of us. I remember when pictures were first put out to identify the potential kidnapper – Mr. Mitchell and he was clean cut, and looked very much together. So he didn’t LOOK like a bad guy and probably didn’t act like one either.

Furthermore, the Smarts didn’t trust this man to care for their children but to do a job around the house, or if he was allowed more then supervised, casual contact with the children. It is hardly different then when we allow an unknown contractor into our homes to fix our plumbing, our put in carpeting.

These parents put too much credence in an unknown person who professed a strong faith similar to their own. That was rather foolish, but what happened to this family is one of the most devastating experiences a family can possibly endure. Hindsight is 20-20, and hopefully they have learned a lesson. However, condemning these people (who have lived a sheltered, cozy life in their wealthy, gated community) for their hope in human goodness sends the wrong message. We should be careful in our dealings with those we do not know, but we shouldn’t become so jaded that we blame every ill that befalls a Christian as a direct result of their Christianity – correlation is NOT causation!

Brighid

tdekeyser

Brighid,

Yeah maybe.... I guess I see yours and others points.

I never open my door for anyone unless I know they are coiming over-even the UPS guy, and I don't even have kids yet.

Yes, I am fortunate to have seen the 'streets' and know quite a lot from it.

These days, I balme everything on religion. I'm not a bitter person, but when I see the nation 'cracking' because of religious zealots, boys being molested by priests, Yates killing her 5 kids, 9/11 and so on......

Religion needs to be abolished. IMHO......

brighid

You and I have both had the life experience to know better then to do something like this. I don’t open my door to anyone I don’t know, or I am not expecting. I take extra precautions that some consider a bit paranoid, but having seen the darker side of human nature I am not very trusting of strangers. I am just barely more trusting until I get to know someone really well and I am hyper-paranoid about whom my child gets to spend time with.

In one respect these people (prior to this event) were lucky. They may never had had the opportunity to be burned and therefore thought that other people, with similar thoughts and interests would act as they would in any given situation. I still have times where I am just flabbergasted to find that people just don’t do things as I would. Now that is naïve of me :P

Religion is not entirely to blame, but the nature of human beings that can be exploited by some religions and the choice of otherwise intelligent people to give up their ability to reason so they can belong and feel safe in a world that is truly unfair. Abolishing religion will solve nothing. It will only force religion underground. I do agree that the perils and ills of religion need to be combated, but I fully believe in the right of every person to think and feel as he or she wishes – even if I find that thoughts and feelings to be patently absurd. Each person should be judged upon his or her OWN merits. You do not like being classified as a devil worshipping, immoral human being because you lack a belief in God and you should therefore remain morally consistent and judge religious people according to his/her merit. Especially when it is tough to see through our own prejudices, sometimes rightly held!

Brighid

Amos

Just because Anna was stupid doesn't mean the Smarts are.

tdekeyser

I take a bit of offense to that comment. Anna was not "stupid", she was LIED to that there was a God protecting her. She was taught that Christians are on the narrow path and rightious and can be trusted.

How would you like it if I called your wife "stupid"?

christ-on-a-stick

Amos, that's just nasty.

Tim, I would take that with a *bowl* of salt - after all, IIRC Amos also called the children molested by Catholic priests "cowards" for not immediately reporting their abuse.

So consider the source, I suppose.

Amos

It is an interesting story and I feel sorry for the "messiah" here, who, himself, was a victim of religion. With him being a resident of Utah he may have been victimized by the very same denomination that the Smarts belong to. Yes, he was a victim because to think you are the messiah suggests that he had a major religious experience from which he failed to recover as a sane person. If this is so, can we really blame him for having been zapped by a religious evangelist?

My concern is that now the whole USA (?) is on a vengence trip and want to make this a showcase of justice. In my opinion the poor guy needs help and MAYBE the 14 year saw this and wanted to help him. At least, it puzzles me why she did not try to seek help on her own and this side of the story we will probably never know.

HelenM

But I think you would say someone was 'harmed'

I know you said you don't want to go into it and of course you don't have to - but I'm thinking based on other posts of yours that I've read, that when you say someone was 'harmed' by a Christian you may simply mean they were told they were a sinner, thereby 'harming' their self-esteem.

Did the ex-prisoner do something to Anna that another Christian would not have done?

Sometimes Christians are too trusting - but sometimes non-Christians are also.

Fwiw I appreciate all the nontheists who have said that it's not fair to put all the blame on Christianity for what happened to this child.

Helen