Koyaanisqatsi

As I stated in my post, I was giving her the benefit of the doubt, which is why I carefully deconstructed what her phrases seemed like and how they could be interpreted as trolling so that she in turn could clarify things.

Judging from her response, she did.

Pseudonymph

Really? I dont see that...at least in atheists. Of course in christians et al but not atheists.

Damn scary is putting it mildly. One of the main reasons I first came here to this community is because I had a lot of questions about atheism and how it might relate to me. In the process I admittedly stepped on a few toes. I have apologized for that and I hope theres no hard feelings, and I apologize to koy for losing my temper just now.

But it is rather frustrating to come in search of answers and be laughed off as a trolling christian. I have to ask...has that ever really happened before? It seems VERY unlikely to me. why would someone waste so much time when no one is going to care about their religious crap anyway?

Yes and thats whats so strange. I want to reject the ideology that I have been taught. So the first thing I did to do that was try and disbelieve in ANYTHING supernatural. And I cant...I simply cant deny some sort of higher power. its like I want to but its impossible.

I see your point but I disagree. this is infidels territory so it must be easy for koy to "tear apart" anyone he wants to. He's surrounded by friends. So I admire his "cut to the chase" method, when it seems appropriate, but in my opinion, it rarely ever is. koy seems more likely to tear apart anyone who simply disagrees with him, and to me, that looks like the sign of a person who dosent want to be wrong(=pride)to the point that he says things like "dont take me on" etc....boring.

Exactly. Sorry but I have better things to do than pretend to be someone I'm not. I'm here for ideas from intelligent people and for support. If I came to the wrong place, my apologies.


Finally someone who gets it. I doubt anything I do keeps you guys awake at night.
Thanks again jobar, for your kind words. I appreciate them very much.


Goliath:


It's easy when you think about it like this. Dont think about it as a lack of belief, but more a choice I made(to disbelieve in God) I now doubt my CHOICE. I now am begginning to wonder...

isnt that agnostisism? Atheists say "I do not believe" and the way I see it, assuming God exists, we would know little, if anything about him.

Me too...sort of. If you want my honest opinion(and I know you do )During this time in my life I have met many more hostile atheists than believers of any sort. Message boards, work, school, you name it. Even when I started leaning towards atheism I got a lot of support from people who believed in all sorts of things, christians too. I did lose a longtime friend though. And it used to make me sad till someone woke me up to the fact that "friends" like that dont matter and I can do better.
Arrogant christians? sure, but again I see more arrogant(seeming) atheists.


I so wish I had never said that....at that time I had a point I wanted to make, but in pure me fashion, I butchered it in the transfer from thoughts to words.

Here I must disagree. The examples you cited do not apply because they are agents that you understand and can see for yourself. What I meant was that most people dont like the idea of having something they do not understand have authority over them.

??? isnt that what dismissing is?
or at least justifying no beliefs?

Right but you can EXPLAIN gravity, see? so therefore, you have "control over it."
If we didnt make it, we want to know what did and when etc. That removes anything higher than us out of the picture.

Miss kally:

huh? no...jesus christ have the mods check my ip or something.

Koy:

Did what...clarify things? I hope so.

[ April 15, 2002: Message edited by: SirenSpeak ]</p>

Free Thinkr

I don't know.. I don't see how anyone can justify deism. As a matter of fact, my belief that deism isn't a legitimate belief is what pushed me into atheism. Basically, I wasn't raised very religious, but considered myself christian. When I began to investigate the bible, I took a more deist stance. Then I got to thinking that it was far more likely that I was believing for the sake of belief -because I wanted to. To me, deism is like inventing a god, I see no use. What questions does deism answer? How does deism account for the problem of infinite regression? I see no sense in believing that it is impossible for us to develop under natural circumstances, yet believe that some sort of super-being somehow existed forever and created us. Sorry if this offended anyone, just stating opionon

Mad Kally

Goliath: How can I, as an atheist, "dismiss" something I don't believe to exist?


Miss Siren: ??? isnt that what dismissing is?
or at least justifying no beliefs?

Ms Kally: Why would a person with no beliefs need to justify having no beliefs? Could you explain that? I don't understand. I've never felt any need to justify things that I consider myths. (Santa, God, etc.)

HelenM

Hi Siren Speak

I think some people just are more arrogant than others. There are arrogant Christians and there are humble atheists.

You can tell by how they treat other people.

Some people just seem to have too high an opinion of themselves and too low an opinion of everyone else.

In my opinion, the nicest people are the ones who realize they have strengths and weaknesses like everyone else, who don't think the universe revolves around them, who do the best they can to help themselves and those they love - and maybe more people than that, if they are so inclined - to have the best lives possible.

The Secular Web is not exactly a place where people are going to say "Great idea to believe in God - go for it!" If you're looking for that you probably need to look elsewhere . But of course it's your right to believe whatever you wish - whatever seems most true to your experience and observations.

By the way, speaking of unusual things, lots of unusual things seem to happen to me but I never know if that's mostly something to do with me being 'unusual'

love
Helen

Viti

Siren Speak...I can't speak for the others, but I certainly did not set out to be an atheist. It was much easier to nod to the masses by attending church on Christmas and Easter and call myself "Non religious". The fact is, I don't believe, I can't make myself believe even if I wanted it to be true, anymore than I can make myself believe there is an ocean in my backyard.

I, for one, do not think it is possible to CHOOSE what you believe, you either believe something, or you don't. My husband has his own beliefs about the nature of the Universe that includes and undefined higher power...he is simply unable to wrap his mind around an indifferent Universe...I can't change that belief and he can't make me believe it....just the nature of the thing.

Queen of Swords

In my opinion, once you start redefining words to mean what you want them to mean (rather than using the accepted/dictionary definition), no reasoning is possible. Or, for that matter, productive.

[ April 15, 2002: Message edited by: QueenofSwords ]</p>

lpetrich

I suggest that you study different religions -- you'll find lots and lots and lots of different beliefs. And you may even conclude that the familiar sorts of religion are just plain arrogant in denying that any other religion can possibly have any truth to it.

That's a first-class absurdity.

Why does such an entity have to exist? And why can't there be more than one of them?

I prefer an alternate hypothesis: impersonal natural laws. That may be a difficult concept for some people to grasp, but I have no trouble grasping it.

It is not for nothing that Karl Marx had called religion the opium of the people, it would seem.

Pseudonymph

What do you mean by that? I'm not redefining any words...

hinduwoman

I believe in a Higher Power, only that Power is luck/chance. It is fairly obvious we are not in control of our lives, far less the universe. But I do not think there is a conscious organizing principle that cares about the eventual fate of the world.