Freethought & Rationalism Archive

yguy · 07-07-2003, 01:05 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Wayne P
Based on Magus' statement above a Jew could call himself a Christian and he would be right, because the only difference between him and Magus is that Magus is not waiting for his Messiah.

Nonsense. Belief in Jesus as Messiah is essential to the Christian faith. Non-belief in Him as Messiah is NOT essential to the Jewish faith. The only way one can believe otherwise is to also believe Jesus was not a Jew.

Biff the unclean · 07-07-2003, 04:17 PM

But Jesus wasn't a Jew, he was a myth.

Belief in Jesus as Messiah IS essential to the Christian faith. So essential that the belief alone is what makes you a Christian. So you can't believe in Jesus and still be a Jew because the belief itself changes your catagory. Much the same effect as f**king has on your ability to claim to be a virgin. The millions of Jews in the past 2000 years who have died at the hands of Christians rather than give up their beliefs testify to that.

yguy · 07-07-2003, 05:45 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Biff the unclean
But Jesus wasn't a Jew, he was a myth.

<yawn>

Your conceit regarding this matter is of no moment whatever in this discussion, since mainstream Jews acknowledge His existence, though not His Messiahship.

Quote:

Belief in Jesus as Messiah IS essential to the Christian faith. So essential that the belief alone is what makes you a Christian. So you can't believe in Jesus and still be a Jew because the belief itself changes your catagory.

Why? Many people who are claim to be Christians also claim to be Masons. If they can be both, why can't Christians be Jews?

Quote:

Much the same effect as f**king has on your ability to claim to be a virgin.

Balderdash. Intercourse destroys virginity, but belief in Christ does not destroy Judaism, because there are no commands in the NT constraining converted Jews to abandon their beliefs - and disbelief in Jesus as Messiah is nowhere to be found in the law of Moses.

Quote:

The millions of Jews in the past 2000 years who have died at the hands of Christians rather than give up their beliefs testify to that.

Those weren't Christians. Christ never countenanced conversion at the point of a sword.

Biff the unclean · 07-07-2003, 06:19 PM

Your conceit regarding this matter is of no moment whatever in this discussion
Give it a rest son. You are on an Atheist site. Save your empty words for your fellow Theists.

Why? Many people who are claim to be Christians also claim to be Masons. If they can be both, why can't Christians be Jews?
The Masons are not a religion.
Balderdash. Intercourse destroys virginity, but belief in Christ does not destroy Judaism,
That is exactly what it does do, and exactly the reason the Southern Baptists are targeting the much hated Jews.

Those weren't Christians.
Martin Luther wasn't a Christian? Or haven't you read his books about the Jewish problem? Or are you just a post holocaust Christian revisionist?

yguy · 07-07-2003, 06:27 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Biff the unclean
Your conceit regarding this matter is of no moment whatever in this discussion
Give it a rest son. You are on an Atheist site. Save your empty words for your fellow Theists.

If Jesus was a myth, so was Moses. That means the discussion has no meaning whatsoever from your POV except as a convenient means of driving a wedge between Jews and Christians.

Quote:

Balderdash. Intercourse destroys virginity, but belief in Christ does not destroy Judaism,
That is exactly what it does do,

You have no idea what the hell you're talking about.

Quote:

Those weren't Christians.

Martin Luther wasn't a Christian?

He said he was. He may have even thought he was. Didn't make him one, as disappointing as I'm sure that is for anti-Christian bigots like yourself.

Quote:

Or haven't you read his books about the Jewish problem?

I'm aware of his anti-semitism. What of it?

Kosh · 07-07-2003, 06:34 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by yguy
If Jesus was a myth, so was Moses.

Good point! Since there is nothing but contradictory evidence against the exodus, it is likely that Moses WAS a myth, or the result of mythmaking upon one of their leaders.

Thanks for conceding the point.

yguy · 07-07-2003, 06:37 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Kosh
Thanks for conceding the point.

<flame deleted>

None of that drivel, yguy. I know you know better and I appreciate your concern for my job security, but you will nonetheless have to abide by the Forum Rules and Policies.

Thank you,
livius drusus
Moderator - GRD

Biff the unclean · 07-07-2003, 07:15 PM

If Jesus was a myth, so was Moses. That means the discussion has no meaning whatsoever from your POV except as a convenient means of driving a wedge between Jews and Christians.
<flame deleted - liv> Jesus and Moses are both myth but Christians and Jews are real people. Why do you have such difficulty separating fantasy from reality?
Targeting Jews for conversion to Christianity to rid the world of them, as you are condoning, is anti-Semitic.

(Martin Luther) said he was (a Xian). He may have even thought he was. Didn't make him one, as disappointing as I'm sure that is for anti-Christian bigots like yourself.
But oh so convenient for you. Funny how he looks just like a Scotsman too. I guess you aren't a real Christian either then because you condone subverting Judaism.

Just because yguy broke the rules doesn't mean you get to respond in kind, Biff. Let's keep it above the belt, please. -- liv

yguy · 07-07-2003, 07:21 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Biff the unclean
Targeting Jews for conversion to Christianity to rid the world of them, as you are condoning, is anti-Semitic.

Produce the quote where I advocated targeting Jews for conversion to anything. You can't, because it's a lie.

Quote:

But oh so convenient for you. Funny how he looks just like a Scotsman too. I guess you aren't a real Christian either then because you condone subverting Judaism.

You're half right. I'm not a Christian, real or otherwise, and I don't condone subverting Judaism or messing with it in any way.

Biff the unclean · 07-07-2003, 07:30 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by yguy
You're half right. I'm not a Christian, real or otherwise, and I don't condone subverting Judaism or messing with it in any way.

So you are changing your tune on Messanic Jews AKA Southern Baptist targeted converts?

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07-07-2003, 04:17 PM	#82
Biff the unclean Banned Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: an inaccessible island fortress Posts: 10,638	But Jesus wasn't a Jew, he was a myth. Belief in Jesus as Messiah IS essential to the Christian faith. So essential that the belief alone is what makes you a Christian. So you can't believe in Jesus and still be a Jew because the belief itself changes your catagory. Much the same effect as f**king has on your ability to claim to be a virgin. The millions of Jews in the past 2000 years who have died at the hands of Christians rather than give up their beliefs testify to that.

07-07-2003, 06:19 PM	#84
Biff the unclean Banned Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: an inaccessible island fortress Posts: 10,638	Your conceit regarding this matter is of no moment whatever in this discussion Give it a rest son. You are on an Atheist site. Save your empty words for your fellow Theists. Why? Many people who are claim to be Christians also claim to be Masons. If they can be both, why can't Christians be Jews? The Masons are not a religion. Balderdash. Intercourse destroys virginity, but belief in Christ does not destroy Judaism, That is exactly what it does do, and exactly the reason the Southern Baptists are targeting the much hated Jews. Those weren't Christians. Martin Luther wasn't a Christian? Or haven't you read his books about the Jewish problem? Or are you just a post holocaust Christian revisionist?

07-07-2003, 07:15 PM	#88
Biff the unclean Banned Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: an inaccessible island fortress Posts: 10,638	If Jesus was a myth, so was Moses. That means the discussion has no meaning whatsoever from your POV except as a convenient means of driving a wedge between Jews and Christians. <flame deleted - liv> Jesus and Moses are both myth but Christians and Jews are real people. Why do you have such difficulty separating fantasy from reality? Targeting Jews for conversion to Christianity to rid the world of them, as you are condoning, is anti-Semitic. (Martin Luther) said he was (a Xian). He may have even thought he was. Didn't make him one, as disappointing as I'm sure that is for anti-Christian bigots like yourself. But oh so convenient for you. Funny how he looks just like a Scotsman too. I guess you aren't a real Christian either then because you condone subverting Judaism. Just because yguy broke the rules doesn't mean you get to respond in kind, Biff. Let's keep it above the belt, please. -- liv

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