HRG

Because in an (almost perfect) correlation between two events, we call "cause" the one which came earlier, and "effect" the one which came later. Without time ordering, we could not distinguish between them.

Regards,
HRG.

tergiversant

Taffy Lewis (presents Miss Solamay and the snake):
I am talking about our apprehension of what a mind is and what it does. As far as I can tell, my mind subjectively apprehends states of affairs within space over time. Since my own mind is the only thing I have to go off of to define the noun "mind," the idea of "timeless mind" or "spaceless mind" or "transcendent mind" makes rather little sense to my understanding.
Awareness and intentionality are similarly understood by appeal to our own experiences, that is, our apprehension of states of affairs in within space and our desire to perform acts in the immediate future. These too are inherently spatiotemporal concepts, and thus face the same problem as above.

tergiversant@OklahomaAtheists.org

<a href="http://www.OklahomaAtheists.org" target="_blank">ATHEISTS of OKLAHOMA</a>

"Atheists are OK."

St. Robert

Jesus Christ is the image of the invisible God. - Colossians 1:15

[ June 11, 2002: Message edited by: St. Robert ]</p>

Mageth

God is the only being, who doesn't have to search for his own origin, purpose and destiny. God is also the only being that constantly and endlessly relies solely on himself for life.

Sounds like the possum that lives under my deck might be god...

Pomp

St. Robert, do you have a purpose for posting bible quotes without discussion or elaboration? If you have a point to make that you feel is supported by this particular verse, you'd get a much better response if you were to provide some thoughts of your own, explaining how the verse in question applies to the discussion, rather than simply posting your verse without comment, a course of action that is likely to annoy many people instead of encouraging them to consider your point of view.

Taffy Lewis

tergiversant:

But why is this a problem for theism?

I don't see why a theist should believe that God is outside time and space if time and space are understood in general enough terms.

St. Robert

Thanks Pompous Bastard for your thoughtful criticism. Philosoft said that this forum was searching for more of an image of God rather than the description of God I offered initially. The bible verse I quoted happens to use the word 'image' to refer to Jesus as God.

God is master. God is servant. God is teacher. God is patient. God is kind. God does not envy. God does not boast. God is not self-seeking. God is not easily angered. God is truth. God is life. God is spirit. God does not delight in evil but rejoices in righteousness.

God is a spurned lover, who is willing to die for his beloved. God loves first and he loves perfectly. He is not pompous.

[ June 11, 2002: Message edited by: St. Robert ]</p>

Mageth

Are you still talking about that possum?

god is santa claus for adults...

Philosoft

St. Robert,

I'm not particularly interested in flowery platitudes that assume 'God' has already been identified. I'd like to know what I'm supposed to picture in my head when someone says, "God." If God is presumed to exist as a thing that can affect material things, I should be able to do this. That I can't speaks volumes.

In reference to your latest Bible quote, what in the name of Sol is an image of an invisible thing?

[ June 11, 2002: Message edited by: Philosoft ]</p>

St. Robert

Philosoft,

If you are not interested in picturing Jesus, you are not interested in picturing God.

The bible verse is confusing to you, because you resist the truth about how God became man. The invisible God became visible in Jesus the Christ.

A person cannot gain spiritual knowledge about God unless they first acknowledge that there is a God that they can gain spiritual knowledge from.

You've got to believe before you can receive.

[ June 11, 2002: Message edited by: St. Robert ]</p>