Freethought & Rationalism Archive

KeithHarwood · 07-14-2002, 06:12 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by tgamble:
43. Dirac And Dicke's Coincidences -- In 1961, noted American physicist
Robert Dicke noticed that life in the universe is possible only because of the
special relationship among certain cosmological parameters (relationships
researched by British physicist Paul dirac 24 years earlier). Dirac noted that
the number of baryons (protons plus neutrons) in the universe is the square
of the gravitational constant as well as the square of the age of the universe
(both expressed as dimensionless numbers). Dicke discerned that a slight
change in either of these relationships and life could not exist. Stars of the
right type for sustaining life supportable planets only can occur during a
certain range of ages for the universe. Similarly, stars of the right type only
can form for a narrow range of values of the gravitational constant. For
more info on this click here . (off site)

I presented a seminar on this many years ago. There is no doubt that Dicke took it seriously, but it is very possible that Dirac started it as a joke. The theory made some predictions which are now known to be false and some explanations which are now known to be unnecessary. The writer of this fluff is conflating Dirac's theory with the Anthropic principle, which suggests that he doesn't understand either.

tgamble · 07-14-2002, 06:59 PM

Patrick, on your page you have a link "Robert Gentry and 'Instant Granites'".

However the link is (pardon the expression) missing. If you could fix that soon I'd appretiate it. Thanks.

Splat · 07-14-2002, 08:35 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by ps418:
You're time would probably be better spent refuting something else.

<Patrick--nice site!>

I have to say that I agree; willful ignorance, not lack of access to information, is what's keeping creationists going.

Still, if you've got the stomach to wade through all that bullshit and the time to put it together, one more site can't hurt.

My favorite is the <a href="http://www.bible.ca/tracks/rapid-fossils-rapid-petrifaction.htm" target="_blank">cowboy boots</a>: they're Leddy boots--my grandfather's boot company! (I've got a pair with the same #10 stitch pattern!) I also thought it was kind of them to point out that cowboys are humans.

[ July 14, 2002: Message edited by: Splat ]

tgamble · 07-15-2002, 05:52 AM

Where the fuck do cretinists come up with this shit?!

Quote:

48. Sequential Ages --You remember them from school, right? Stone Age, Copper, Brass, Bronze,
Iron, etc. Evolutionists would have you believe man developed in this sequential order. No way! A
quick look at middle-east history and archaeology show that the Israelites possessed iron when
neighbors all around had brass. You remember the National Geographic specials...The natives in
Africa in the 50's and 60's were still using wood and stone tools. Are they true man, or some
throwback, or "missing link" ? How about the American Indians of the 1800's? They used wood and
stone tools. Were they true man ? There are still tribes in South America that use wood and stone
tools exclusively. Are they living missing links ? This mentality is what caused thousands of Australian
Aborigines to be killed and their heads cut off and shipped to museums in America. Scientists thought
they were the living "missing link". Their skulls were displayed to the public using this argument of
stone age technology. How sad.

Late_Cretaceous · 07-15-2002, 10:16 AM

I actually have a rather amusing anecdote regarding the evolution/creation debate and the Lewis Thrust formation. Far from being covered up or not discussed by scientists, it seems the Lewis Thrust is actually a textbook example.

A German geology student was visiting relatives (that he was not that well aquainted with) here in Alberta. These relatives took him on a trip to Waterton N.P. When they came to the the park the geology student became quite excited and wanted to take photographs of the Lewis Thrust. His uncle asked him what the big deal was. The student said he had studied the formation and would like to have pictures of it to take home. At this point the uncle became quite angry explaining to the student that the earth was only created 6KY ago and that there is no such thing as millions of years old rock yadda yadda yadda. Undaunted, the student told his uncle that he was welcome to his beliefs, but he would like to snap a few pictures nevertheless. His uncle, being the open minded YEC that he was actually refused to allow him to take any pictures or even stop the car. Unbelievable.

P.S. I do recall learning about certain seaslugs that incorporate and use cnidarian nematocysts (anenome poison darts). Quite amazing, but hardly a challenge to evolutionary theory see this site: <a href="http://www.biology.ucsc.edu/classes/bio161l/NUDI/branchs.html" target="_blank">http://www.biology.ucsc.edu/classes/bio161l/NUDI/branchs.html</a>

[ July 15, 2002: Message edited by: Late_Cretaceous ]

scombrid · 07-15-2002, 11:09 AM

Quote:

This means that the granite was fully formed and
"recording" in a maximum of 21 minutes and a minimum of less than 1/2
second.

And Noah survived this particular granite-forming event on a wooden boat. He must have had something even stronger that teak.

Quote:

12. Soil layers -- This is another huge area of concern for evolutionists - the
lack of extensive soil layers in the fossil record. With all these layers
exposed for millions of years, you would expect to find numerous soil layers.
Even in extreme desert environments these should build up. Yet in the fossil
record there is very scant evidence of any build-up. Selected areas of soil
layers is exactly what you would expect for the geology of a world-wide
flood."

The soil might not be piling up, but I know what is…

Denudation and plate tectonics account nicely for observed soil conditions.

Quote:

48. Sequential Ages -- You remember them from school, right? Stone Age,
Copper, Brass, Bronze, Iron, etc. Evolutionists would have you believe man
developed in this sequential order. No way! A quick look at middle-east
history and archaeology show that the Israelites possessed iron when
neighbors all around had brass. You remember the National Geographic
specials...The natives in Africa in the 50's and 60's were still using wood and
stone tools. Are they true man, or some throwback, or "missing link" ? How
about the American Indians of the 1800's? They used wood and stone tools.
Were they true man ? There are still tribes in South America that use wood
and stone tools exclusively. Are they living missing links ? This mentality is
what caused thousands of Australian Aborigines to be killed and their heads
cut off and shipped to museums in America. Scientists thought they were the
living "missing link". Their skulls were displayed to the public using this
argument of stone age technology. How sad.

This was an interesting way to shoehorn in the “racist evilutionist” bit.

Quote:

23. Laetoli Footprints -- These footprints were found in the same strata as
the "Lucy" bones. Johanson and other evolutionists have claimed these
were made by lucy-like animals, yet when studied by foot doctors, both
secular and non-secular, they found them to be completely human and
modern. At Glen Rose, Tx., several modern human footprints have been
found inside those of dinosaurs, much like a child of today would follow along
stepping into daddy's footprints. This proves man and dinosaur were
contemporary with each other until the world-wide flood. Evolutionists are
fond of say these prints have been disproven. This is an outright lie! The
exact opposite is true. They have been verified at every turn. By secular
science.

Too rich, he even used the Flintstones argument.

Quote:

Sea Slugs --The sea slug is an truly impressive design that can be used
to show evolution false. Sea slugs feed on the sea anemone. What makes
this so impressive is that the anemones have poison harpoons that stick out
and would paralyze anything that came in contact with it. The sea slug
however, is able to put these darts inside its own stomach to store and use
for its own defense. You would have to have all of these abilities from the
start or the organism would die the 1st time it came in contact with the dart.
A slow evolutionary process would have been deadly!"

BZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTT!!!!!!!!! !!!!!! Wrong. Some nudibranchs eat cnidarians but just digest the nematocysts (the "harpoons"). No need to leap from killed by nematocysts straight to using them. Most animals aren't killed by exposure to nematocysts anyway. They just say "ouch, better not bite that again". First you just need to be able eat the nematocysts before some other mutations lead to using them. I actually see this as a great example of the arms race of natural selection. Nudibranchs are pretty damn vulnerable animals without such protection. Oh yeah, their are mimics too.

Many nudibranchs don't eat cnidarians at all. Some eat sponges and accumulate the spicules, thus becoming inedible themselves. Others still feed on zooplankton.

I'll look for some online links to more specific info on the slugs.

[ July 15, 2002: Message edited by: scombrid ]

scombrid · 07-15-2002, 11:29 AM

<a href="http://oceanlink.island.net/oinfo/nudibranch/nudibranch.html" target="_blank">slug stuff</a>

<a href="http://slugsite.tierranet.com/" target="_blank">mo slugs</a>

Boro Nut · 07-16-2002, 03:29 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by tgamble:

23. Laetoli Footprints -- These footprints were found in the same strata as the "Lucy" bones. Johanson and other evolutionists have claimed these were made by lucy-like animals, yet when studied by foot doctors, both secular and non-secular,....

Now that's what I call a REAL doctor. Not one of these fancy jumped up white coated hospital quacks, but a proper doctor, that sells ointment from a wagon.

Boro Nut

tgamble · 07-16-2002, 05:34 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Boro Nut:


Now that's what I call a REAL doctor. Not one of these fancy jumped up white coated hospital quacks, but a proper doctor, that sells ointment from a wagon.

Boro Nut

Don't knock it. I've had surgery done by a foot doctor (chiropodist).

Boro Nut · 07-19-2002, 03:45 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by tgamble:


Don't knock it. I've had surgery done by a foot doctor (chiropodist).

Did he cure your piles then? Or just file them down to size?

Boro Nut

[ July 19, 2002: Message edited by: Boro Nut ]

07-15-2002, 10:16 AM	#15
Late_Cretaceous Veteran Member Join Date: Oct 2001 Location: Alberta Posts: 1,049	I actually have a rather amusing anecdote regarding the evolution/creation debate and the Lewis Thrust formation. Far from being covered up or not discussed by scientists, it seems the Lewis Thrust is actually a textbook example. A German geology student was visiting relatives (that he was not that well aquainted with) here in Alberta. These relatives took him on a trip to Waterton N.P. When they came to the the park the geology student became quite excited and wanted to take photographs of the Lewis Thrust. His uncle asked him what the big deal was. The student said he had studied the formation and would like to have pictures of it to take home. At this point the uncle became quite angry explaining to the student that the earth was only created 6KY ago and that there is no such thing as millions of years old rock yadda yadda yadda. Undaunted, the student told his uncle that he was welcome to his beliefs, but he would like to snap a few pictures nevertheless. His uncle, being the open minded YEC that he was actually refused to allow him to take any pictures or even stop the car. Unbelievable. P.S. I do recall learning about certain seaslugs that incorporate and use cnidarian nematocysts (anenome poison darts). Quite amazing, but hardly a challenge to evolutionary theory see this site: <a href="http://www.biology.ucsc.edu/classes/bio161l/NUDI/branchs.html" target="_blank">http://www.biology.ucsc.edu/classes/bio161l/NUDI/branchs.html</a> [ July 15, 2002: Message edited by: Late_Cretaceous ]</p>

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07-14-2002, 06:59 PM	#12
tgamble Veteran Member Join Date: Sep 2000 Location: St. John's, Nfld. Canada Posts: 1,652	Patrick, on your page you have a link "Robert Gentry and 'Instant Granites'". However the link is (pardon the expression) missing. If you could fix that soon I'd appretiate it. Thanks.

07-15-2002, 11:29 AM	#17
scombrid Veteran Member Join Date: Nov 2001 Location: Central Florida Posts: 2,759	<a href="http://oceanlink.island.net/oinfo/nudibranch/nudibranch.html" target="_blank">slug stuff</a> <a href="http://slugsite.tierranet.com/" target="_blank">mo slugs</a>

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