Queen of Swords

Originally posted by luvluv:
<strong>I have just always felt that the only advantage of atheism is that it gives you the ultimate justification to be on the constant look out for a party. At least that's how I would be. If this is all there is, it seems insane to be otherwise.</strong>

So who do you imagine paid the bills in my house? There was no atheist charitable organization supplying me with cash for these constant hypothetical parties, therefore I had to work. And it was work I enjoyed and was good at, which enabled me to support myself and save money. I don't know why anyone would party all the time, anyway. There are much more interesting things to do. But if that's all you can conceive of atheists doing - partying - well, you have my sympathy.

luvluv

Well, again, if I was an atheist, I'd earn just enough money to provide for me having a good time while I was around. I'd live in a tent on the beach, eat ambrosia, and kiss pretty girls. That's all I'd do all day long. Maybe that's just me.

Queen of Swords

Yes, that's definitely you. I prefer men.

99Percent

Oops, QoS, luvluv already stated he is male.

luvluv, I don't see anything immoral if you go and pursue what you think is an ideal life - "I'd live in a tent on the beach, eat ambrosia, and kiss pretty girls."

I would certainly do that if I had the money and no lofty goals.

Pomp

luvluv,

&lt;sigh&gt; You still don't understand us, do you? Let me take another stab at clearing things up.

First of all, please don't assume (as you seem to be doing here) that all atheists are moral subjectivists. Although many of us, including myself, are, many of us are not. You'll find that atheists as a group share very few beliefs beyond an agreement that there are no gods.

On to your specific comments:

To me, though, it seems more wrong (there's that word again) to use coercion to stop somebody from acting in a certain way if you can't necessarily say he is wrong.

I can see how you might feel that way. To those of us who don't believe in an objective moral standard, though, such a stance is senseless. There is no abstract "right" or "wrong," there are only people, trying to make the best of their lives. We use coercion to prevent others from harming us or destroying the things that we value.

It seems to me a bit capricious to coerce somebody, whether violently or otherwise, just because you disagree with him. I just find it hard to see how some of you can get so upset if there is no objective standard of value.

Others have dealt with this, but I'll repeat it. Imagine the person whom you love the most in the world. Now, imagine that that person is being tortured to death. Imagine the look on his/her face. Imagine the horrible wounds inflicted upon his/her body. Does the thought upset you? Are you upset because the act of torture is morally wrong or are you upset because someone you love is being terribly harmed? We don't check our emotions at the door when we become subjectivists.

To be honest, I can't figure you folks out. If I didn't believe in God, if I really thought this life was all there is, I'd basically live on the beach.

You'd really give up your job, your responsibilities, your family, your friends, your interests, and so forth, and party till you died simply because you no longer believed in an afterlife? I don't believe that for an instant. I'm not saying that you're a liar, I'm saying that I know quite a few atheists, online and in real life, and not one of them has chosen the path you claim you would choose. We each find our own meaning in life and the conclusion that there is no afterlife, although it changed the way many of us think about the world, did not invalidate that meaning for any of us.

I wouldn't waste a single second trying to convince somebody of anything.

I don't view the time I spend posting here as wasted. I get some much-needed mental exercise, I get a free education on many topics, and I get to meet a lot of interesting people. I may never convince anyone of anything by my posts here. I'm vain enough that I'd like to think I have some effect on others' thoughts but if I don't, what the hell, the ride has been worth it.

To be honest, and this is no offense to you folks because you are awfully nice, but most of the time I kind of dread posting over here because while I respect your point of view I find it personally deppressing.

Why do you find our point of view depressing, if you don't mind my asking? Which point of view? Moral subjectivism? Atheism? Both?

If I didn't believe I was possibly doing something important by engaging with you, I'd never do it. To be honest, there are days when I just don't want to do it and I feel God compels me to come over here and post anyway.

What important thing do you believe you are accomplishing here, if you don't mind my asking?

If I thought that this life was all there was, I'd never come anywhere near a computer. But hey, one guy's computer is another guy's beach... so who's to say.

You hit the nail on the head there. Even if I was going to hang out on a beach all day for the rest of my life, I'd insist on taking a laptop with me.

Yeah, but, are you really under the impression that there are child abusers on the infidel board? And do you really spend most of your time over here trying to convert child-molestors?

I think you missed the point. Kachana was not saying that we believe that we are doing public service by convincing molesters not to molest through our discussion here. Kachana was pointing out that one not need an absolute, or even an objective, moral standard to have good reason to disapprove of child molestation. We disapprove because we value children and are horrified at the thought of harming them, not because we think that child molestation is morally wrong.

At any rate, I don't have children, and again, if I didn't believe in a God I don't know that I'd want to spend my time raising any.

I don't have any either, and probably never will, but most of the parents I know claim that parenting is an immensely pleasureable and fulfilling experience. That's reason enough, in my mind.

I have just always felt that the only advantage of atheism is that it gives you the ultimate justification to be on the constant look out for a party. At least that's how I would be. If this is all there is, it seems insane to be otherwise.

The primary advantage atheism gives me is freedom from the cognitive dissonance I felt as a theist. I was just not being honest with myself. I'm much happier as an intellectually honest atheist than I was as a self-apologetic Christian.

I apologize to those whose thoughts I've duplicated in my post. Luvluv, I hope you're a bit clearer on what makes atheists tick. You're one of the more civil theists to show up here, and I hope you stick around. Feel free to ask for clarification on anythgin you still don't quite get about atheists or moral subjectivists but bear in mind that I don't speak for all of us.

[ March 23, 2002: Message edited by: Pompous Bastard ]</p>

JL

luvluv,

It comes as no surprise our plight seems depressing to you. God is the source/origin of your values. We don't believe in God, so consequently we seem to lack purpose. But,&lt;sighs&gt; somehow, we manage to go on...

And perhaps all this debate for some is reflective of that moving on, striking out with new goals for humanity.

But by all means, dismiss us. Our vindication will be the uncelebrated absorption of what results from this sort of interaction between people like us by Christians in a generation or two.

Apologies if I sound harsh, no hard feelings, no animosity here against you personally, just against your belief system.