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Old 05-24-2003, 02:57 PM   #11
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I think that the main difference in the theology of the OT and the NT is probably due to more and more influence from foreign cultures.
The OT's God starts out sort of as a sort of lawmaker who tries to keep Israel in order--and punishes them severely if they slip up--even on slight issues. However after the Jews contact the Persians and the Greeks, dualism becomes a more prominent thing, and things become more cosmic in scope...concepts such as demonology and escathology begin to emerge where they didn't exist before.
The concept of "Messiah" seems to be based mainly on the present king or a great hero. However certain phrases in the bible seem to a great Davidic ruler who will restore the people. However most of these phrases can be traced to historical figures such as Hezekiah, Josiah, Zerubabbel, or Joshua(The priest).
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Old 05-24-2003, 03:09 PM   #12
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Quote:
Originally posted by lunachick
Perhaps. Yes.
It is a very broad question, isn't it? Sorry.


I guess, I am asking that - God wanted to change so much that he had to scrap his original draft (the OT), and replace it with a new plan (the NT).

So he must have seen bugs in the OT - some imperfections in his creation. He had to come down to do the repair and maintenance work, by making alterations, additions and deletions, etc, to his creation and his WORD. I think. Yeah, so what was it that made the big landlord in the sky come down? And what was he expecting the outcome of that to be, in the long term [of his creation], via the word of the new book?

Oh, shit - what am I REALLY asking?!
Well actually, God never changed His plan from the OT to the NT - God doesn't change - He had the New Convenant planned for all eternity. The purpose of the Old Convenant is to establish His chosen people in Israel and set up the path for the coming of the Messiah. The NT is the fulfillment of what the OT was working up to.

The purpose of coming down was to be the perfect sacrifice to save humanity - since no human is good enough to repay the debt to God, He chose to do it himself because of His mercy and love. The outcome in the long run is to bring as many people as possible to Salvation in Jesus - but obviously He knew that many people would reject it, and turn down His gift.
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Old 05-24-2003, 03:15 PM   #13
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Quote:
Originally posted by Bobzammel
I think that the main difference in the theology of the OT and the NT is probably due to more and more influence from foreign cultures.
The OT's God starts out sort of as a sort of lawmaker who tries to keep Israel in order--and punishes them severely if they slip up--even on slight issues. However after the Jews contact the Persians and the Greeks, dualism becomes a more prominent thing, and things become more cosmic in scope...concepts such as demonology and escathology begin to emerge where they didn't exist before.
The concept of "Messiah" seems to be based mainly on the present king or a great hero. However certain phrases in the bible seem to a great Davidic ruler who will restore the people. However most of these phrases can be traced to historical figures such as Hezekiah, Josiah, Zerubabbel, or Joshua(The priest).
No, the Bible isn't influenced from other foreign relgions, and God didn't change from the OT to the New. The OT, was more harsh because of its purpose - it paved the way for the coming of the Messiah, and God was swift and righteous in His judgements to keep things in line without getting out of control like they did during the days of Noah. After Christ came to Earth, He ushered in the Age of Grace - he set forth the plan for everyone to be saved, and it was now up to us to decide what we want to do.

Its like parents. When a child is young ( Old Testament), the parents are more strict and harsh when it comes to punishments and teachings, but as the child gets older ( New Testament), the parents back off and let the child have responsibility - hoping that the teachings they left with him will aid him in making the right choices throughout his life.

Now obviously, God is more than a parent - he is also the ultimate Judge and Lord over all things, but in regaurds to His apparent changing personality - it doesn't actually change, only shows different sides of it for different periods of time. God will judge everyone again and unleash His wrath like in the OT, at the Tribulation.
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Old 05-24-2003, 04:11 PM   #14
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Magus, there is not much importance in the OT given to the Messiah. Yahweh states to David that his line will be on the throne eternally. Many lines in the OT can be twisted to refer to Jesus, but a close examination of the qoutes in context reveals that was not purpose.
For instance, the passages in Isiah probably refer to a regular king. Also the actions of the king do not line up with Jesus.
The Laws in the OT are suppossed to be perpetual--they are also not to be changed in the slightest.
As for the influence of other religions, there are certain connections between early Judaism and Egyptian cults, as well as Babylonian and Caananite myth. In fact many of the stories seem to be almost direct copies. the Persians, once they had freed the Jews from the exile, practiced a religion called Zoroastaranism which among other things, included a concept of heaven or hell as the destination for souls, an apocalypse and cosmic renewal, and an "evil" God trying to deceive mankind. It also predicts the coming of a hero who will destroy evil at the end of time. Before this Judaism did not have these features-afterlife was in Sheol, Satan merely an angel of God, and there was less focus on a savior.
You'll notice if you look closely in books like DANIEL, CHRONICLES and ZECHIRIAH(sp?) that these features begin to take more concrete shape.
There is also Greek philosophy. While Judaism is very Earth-centered and concerned more with sex, the harvest and so on, Christianity shows a disdain for materialism in most of it's texts. There seems to be some influence from Cynics, Stoics, and the works of Plato(Although this is more prominent in non-canonized texts).
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Old 05-24-2003, 04:21 PM   #15
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Christianity grew from a Jewish matrix. The Romans had strict rules about which religions were acceptable, older ones were allowed, new ones were labeled superstitions and rendered illegal. Christianity, as a new religion, faced this problem. One solution was to appropriate the Jewish scriptures, which were known throughout the Empire in at least passing familiarity, Judaism being in the midst of a missionary revival and being well-respected. By appropriating the Jewish scriptures, Christianity gave itself a veneer of age.

Hope this helps.

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Old 05-24-2003, 04:25 PM   #16
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Default OK Magus55 If you God does not change

Why does he not still kill the israelites to this day like he did in the old testament?

Either he is still killing them or he is not killing them.Which one?
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Old 05-24-2003, 05:09 PM   #17
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Regarding the "New Covenant"--the "New" Covenant seems, from the text in Jeremiah, to still include all the old laws, which Christianity seems to abolish. The exact nature of the "New" Covenant seems to be some form of divine revelation, in which everybody would know and be able to interpet the law more perfectly, and also everybody would know about the Jewish God.
However, there are problems with this...not *everyone* knows about the Christian God, or has a full understanding of the requirements of the religion itself.
The "New Covenant" seems to have more in common also with the return of Israel from Babylon. There is no mention of a Messiah.
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Old 05-24-2003, 08:10 PM   #18
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Quote:
Originally posted by Bobzammel
Regarding the "New Covenant"--the "New" Covenant seems, from the text in Jeremiah, to still include all the old laws, which Christianity seems to abolish.
Yeah, seems so Bobzammel, Man/Christianity may have, but there are some that uphold the commandments (Torah) Of Yahweh and have the faith/testimony of Y'hoshua/Yeshua as mentioned in Revelation 12:17/14:12.
Romans 3:31 !! and so forth.... (walk as He walked 1John 2:6)

Jer 31:31 Behold, the days come, saith the LORD, that I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel, and with the house of Judah:
Jer 31:32 Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day that I took them by the hand to bring them out of the land of Egypt; which my covenant they brake, although I was an husband unto them, saith the LORD:
Jer 31:33 But this shall be the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel; After those days, saith the LORD, I will put my law in their inward parts, and write it in their hearts; and will be their God, and they shall be my people.
Jer 31:34 And they shall teach no more every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the LORD (Yahweh/YHWH): for they shall all know me, from the least of them unto the greatest of them, saith the LORD: for I will forgive their iniquity, and I will remember their sin no more.
NKJV

note : Law, teach no more and know Him. v34 has not come to pass aisi.
 
Old 05-24-2003, 08:12 PM   #19
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Magus, why are you so certain that God doesn't change?
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Old 05-24-2003, 08:39 PM   #20
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Quote:
Originally posted by Answerer
Magus, why are you so certain that God doesn't change?
Mal 3:6 For I [am] the LORD, I change not; therefore ye sons of Jacob are not consumed.
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