Freethought & Rationalism Archive

Harumi · 04-01-2003, 11:59 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Seraphim

Here's a question for you (thought about it for about an hour) :

1 + 1 = 2

Is this THE truth about getting the value 2?

Think and answer.

Since I am no expert on physics or math or whatever, I will say that based in this 3-dimensional world, 1+1 does indeed = 2.

04-01-2003, 04:20 PM

by Harumi

Since I am no expert on physics or math or whatever, I will say that based in this 3-dimensional world, 1+1 does indeed = 2.

And so is

100 - 98 = 2

4 - 2 = 2

1 X 2 = 2

10 - 8 = 2

etc ... and list goes on.

Is that mean you are wrong and I'm right? Or I'm wrong or you are right?

Same here ... a person who wins a debate will consider his opinion ( 1 + 1 = 2) is correct and thus that will produce emotion and ego. He will close his mind to all other possibilities and be possessed with his own "truth".

That's what Gautama Buddha meant by "The next advice is not to accept anything through logical argument. Argument depends on ability, knowledge and skill and a talented attitude but not on truth and fact. Argument can arouse emotion and egoism."

Debate and find your own answers, but at the same time, be open-minded since what you see may not be the whole picture, rather than a simple perspective from your point of view.

Harumi · 04-02-2003, 07:12 AM

That example could also apply to the Eight-Fold Path couldn't it?

You don't have to follow each and every one. You can choose a path of your own, but be mindful that those who make another decision aren't necessarily wrong.

If everyone realized that, the world would be a better place.

04-02-2003, 04:34 PM

by Harumi

That example could also apply to the Eight-Fold Path couldn't it?

You don't have to follow each and every one. You can choose a path of your own, but be mindful that those who make another decision aren't necessarily wrong.

If everyone realized that, the world would be a better place.

My reply : Maybe ... explain a bit.

Everyone has their own beliefs and borders which they don't want others to enter and distrub. Whether they are correct or incorrect is NOT important, as long as they do not enter our border and disturb us.

Yup, everyone will be more peaceful if they think like that.

Harumi · 04-03-2003, 01:03 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Seraphim
by Harumi

That example could also apply to the Eight-Fold Path couldn't it?

You don't have to follow each and every one. You can choose a path of your own, but be mindful that those who make another decision aren't necessarily wrong.

If everyone realized that, the world would be a better place.

My reply : Maybe ... explain a bit.

Everyone has their own beliefs and borders which they don't want others to enter and distrub. Whether they are correct or incorrect is NOT important, as long as they do not enter our border and disturb us.

Yup, everyone will be more peaceful if they think like that.

And don't forget that their beliefs might not necessarily be wrong. That's a big problem these days, everyone thinking they're right and the others are wrong. Maybe they're both right.

Seraphim, you're really good at this. You could start a whole new fad.

Seraphim, the Online Guru

04-03-2003, 06:17 PM

By Harumi

And don't forget that their beliefs might not necessarily be wrong. That's a big problem these days, everyone thinking they're right and the others are wrong. Maybe they're both right.

Should it matter to another whether that person's views is right or wrong? I don't think so.
Everyone has their own views and as long as others don't force their views onto another person, everyone should be fine.

Seraphim, you're really good at this. You could start a whole new fad.

Seraphim, the Online Guru

O_o Great ... that's all I need (its a joke ... sarcasm if you may).

I just said what comes to my mind and whatever answer which I could think of (no emotions attached since emotions could side-track logics). Anyone could do that and they don't have to be Gurus to do it. All they have to do is shut up, sit down and think ... hell, isn't that what Siddaharta Gautama did? And look where he end up.

Harumi · 04-04-2003, 08:17 AM

Most people who hold what we consider "wrong" beliefs often do try to impose their beliefs on others.

And I agree with you. Even if the person's beliefs were "right", if they tried to force it on others, that would make it "wrong".

Just sitting back and listening, eh? I feel that many would probably find that hard to do. Me included. Perhaps it's my time to start practicing.

04-04-2003, 04:31 PM

BY Harumi

Most people who hold what we consider "wrong" beliefs often do try to impose their beliefs on others.

And I agree with you. Even if the person's beliefs were "right", if they tried to force it on others, that would make it "wrong".

My reply : Does it matter what they are trying to impose on you? Right or wrong is solely depends on you and how you interact with others around you.

Example - a man could go fooling around with women every night and to him, it is right. But doesn't it truly makes it right?

As for others forcing the "right" belief onto you thus making it "wrong", I can't say much. While the belief itself doesn't change, the attitude of its followers did somewhat change it.

Just sitting back and listening, eh? I feel that many would probably find that hard to do. Me included. Perhaps it's my time to start practicing.

And think of what you heard, don't forget that.

You can start simply by resisting the temptation of wanting to answer anything and everything which was thrown at you. Stop talking for a few moments and allow your mind to process the information, then when you are sure you have the most proper answer, spit it out and the person who asked earlier will counter it with another and thus, repeat the process.

It's quite easy if you have patience, control over emotions (which is one of the main reasons why people shoot their mouth all the time) and thinking cap on.

Oh ... another thing, when you're thinking about the answers, DO NOT LIE to yourself. Sometimes you will come to an answer that MAY show that it is you who are wrong. Lying to yourself MAY bring you victory BUT it will not bring you any answers.

Harumi · 04-05-2003, 06:27 PM

Seraphim,

Help me. How do you have control over your emotions?

I've been working on this for two years, and have come to nothing. Please tell me how.

04-06-2003, 07:46 PM

By Harumi

Seraphim,

Help me. How do you have control over your emotions?

I've been working on this for two years, and have come to nothing. Please tell me how.

My reply : I don't think my method will work for anyone else simply because it is a bit hard to follow.

I'm a Martial Artist and for me, having control over my emotion is important simply because having control means you can assert the situations and come out with strategy which will enable you to win thus survive.

A person who feels angry will loose his concentration and attack without thinking, thus he will lose.
A person who has doubts especially in his own skills will lose because he is already lost inside.

Most people nowadays learn Martial Arts simply because they want to keep fit and healthy, NOT for survival. Even if you do follow my way (joining a Martial Arts) then you have to remember that your teacher must willing to teach you methods which is dangerous to yourself and others and trust you with it (mine is Iajutsu - Sword drawing techniques and sword play) and you willing to face your own shortcomings (anger, hatred, doubts etc) otherwise the methods which you will practice will "eat" you up.

Anyway, you may want to look up the method called "Zanshin" in the Net.

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04-01-2003, 04:20 PM	#122
Seraphim Guest Posts: n/a	by Harumi Since I am no expert on physics or math or whatever, I will say that based in this 3-dimensional world, 1+1 does indeed = 2. And so is 100 - 98 = 2 4 - 2 = 2 1 X 2 = 2 10 - 8 = 2 etc ... and list goes on. Is that mean you are wrong and I'm right? Or I'm wrong or you are right? Same here ... a person who wins a debate will consider his opinion ( 1 + 1 = 2) is correct and thus that will produce emotion and ego. He will close his mind to all other possibilities and be possessed with his own "truth". That's what Gautama Buddha meant by "The next advice is not to accept anything through logical argument. Argument depends on ability, knowledge and skill and a talented attitude but not on truth and fact. Argument can arouse emotion and egoism." Debate and find your own answers, but at the same time, be open-minded since what you see may not be the whole picture, rather than a simple perspective from your point of view.

04-02-2003, 07:12 AM	#123
Harumi Veteran Member Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: N/A Posts: 3,184	That example could also apply to the Eight-Fold Path couldn't it? You don't have to follow each and every one. You can choose a path of your own, but be mindful that those who make another decision aren't necessarily wrong. If everyone realized that, the world would be a better place.

04-02-2003, 04:34 PM	#124
Seraphim Guest Posts: n/a	by Harumi That example could also apply to the Eight-Fold Path couldn't it? You don't have to follow each and every one. You can choose a path of your own, but be mindful that those who make another decision aren't necessarily wrong. If everyone realized that, the world would be a better place. My reply : Maybe ... explain a bit. Everyone has their own beliefs and borders which they don't want others to enter and distrub. Whether they are correct or incorrect is NOT important, as long as they do not enter our border and disturb us. Yup, everyone will be more peaceful if they think like that.

04-03-2003, 06:17 PM	#126
Seraphim Guest Posts: n/a	By Harumi And don't forget that their beliefs might not necessarily be wrong. That's a big problem these days, everyone thinking they're right and the others are wrong. Maybe they're both right. Should it matter to another whether that person's views is right or wrong? I don't think so. Everyone has their own views and as long as others don't force their views onto another person, everyone should be fine. Seraphim, you're really good at this. You could start a whole new fad. Seraphim, the Online Guru O_o Great ... that's all I need (its a joke ... sarcasm if you may). I just said what comes to my mind and whatever answer which I could think of (no emotions attached since emotions could side-track logics). Anyone could do that and they don't have to be Gurus to do it. All they have to do is shut up, sit down and think ... hell, isn't that what Siddaharta Gautama did? And look where he end up.

04-04-2003, 08:17 AM	#127
Harumi Veteran Member Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: N/A Posts: 3,184	Most people who hold what we consider "wrong" beliefs often do try to impose their beliefs on others. And I agree with you. Even if the person's beliefs were "right", if they tried to force it on others, that would make it "wrong". Just sitting back and listening, eh? I feel that many would probably find that hard to do. Me included. Perhaps it's my time to start practicing.

04-04-2003, 04:31 PM	#128
Seraphim Guest Posts: n/a	BY Harumi Most people who hold what we consider "wrong" beliefs often do try to impose their beliefs on others. And I agree with you. Even if the person's beliefs were "right", if they tried to force it on others, that would make it "wrong". My reply : Does it matter what they are trying to impose on you? Right or wrong is solely depends on you and how you interact with others around you. Example - a man could go fooling around with women every night and to him, it is right. But doesn't it truly makes it right? As for others forcing the "right" belief onto you thus making it "wrong", I can't say much. While the belief itself doesn't change, the attitude of its followers did somewhat change it. Just sitting back and listening, eh? I feel that many would probably find that hard to do. Me included. Perhaps it's my time to start practicing. And think of what you heard, don't forget that. You can start simply by resisting the temptation of wanting to answer anything and everything which was thrown at you. Stop talking for a few moments and allow your mind to process the information, then when you are sure you have the most proper answer, spit it out and the person who asked earlier will counter it with another and thus, repeat the process. It's quite easy if you have patience, control over emotions (which is one of the main reasons why people shoot their mouth all the time) and thinking cap on. Oh ... another thing, when you're thinking about the answers, DO NOT LIE to yourself. Sometimes you will come to an answer that MAY show that it is you who are wrong. Lying to yourself MAY bring you victory BUT it will not bring you any answers.

04-05-2003, 06:27 PM	#129
Harumi Veteran Member Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: N/A Posts: 3,184	Seraphim, Help me. How do you have control over your emotions? I've been working on this for two years, and have come to nothing. Please tell me how.

04-06-2003, 07:46 PM	#130
Seraphim Guest Posts: n/a	By Harumi Seraphim, Help me. How do you have control over your emotions? I've been working on this for two years, and have come to nothing. Please tell me how. My reply : I don't think my method will work for anyone else simply because it is a bit hard to follow. I'm a Martial Artist and for me, having control over my emotion is important simply because having control means you can assert the situations and come out with strategy which will enable you to win thus survive. A person who feels angry will loose his concentration and attack without thinking, thus he will lose. A person who has doubts especially in his own skills will lose because he is already lost inside. Most people nowadays learn Martial Arts simply because they want to keep fit and healthy, NOT for survival. Even if you do follow my way (joining a Martial Arts) then you have to remember that your teacher must willing to teach you methods which is dangerous to yourself and others and trust you with it (mine is Iajutsu - Sword drawing techniques and sword play) and you willing to face your own shortcomings (anger, hatred, doubts etc) otherwise the methods which you will practice will "eat" you up. Anyway, you may want to look up the method called "Zanshin" in the Net.

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